C A C H E - snodart/theloniusjones

[MsManhattan]

Hey, Justin -- I just looked at your cast credits, and I see that my take on the story (the man in the doorway, etc.) was not accurate, based on the fact that the child is called "Young Mr. Nell" and the dude in the doorway is "Man" and was played by you, not your lead actor. However, even knowing that, I still love that the story is complex and interesting enough, and the cinematography is such that as a viewer you can still find a lot of different ways to read the story. And, that it was compelling enough that I had to stop watching other films and go looking for the credits to try to discern the answer to my question... Once again, excellent job. And kudos to your family -- very nice to see that it was a family affair!

 

[snodart]

Great camera work. You evoked a consistent, dramatic mood. Great lighting. Loved your performers. The story was so close to being awesome--it was good--but it could have been awesome if you really hit home the notion that the hero may have been imagining his powers and may have killed someone in error. I think that's what it's about: a guy who could have been a superhero or could have been crazy. Anyway, you almost nailed it if the story had been fine tuned a litttle.

Thanks for the comments. As for the story, "a guy who could have been a superhero or could have been crazy" is pretty much the core of it. So most all of our ideas were determined by this single theme. I understand what you are saying about the story maybe needing a little more umph to drive this idea home. I'm honestly not sure what else we could have added, but that may simply be a matter of Tim and I needing more experience. The one thing that we didn't want to do was to make the story too ovbious. Our hope was to give just enough and let the viewer put some of the pieces together. Which would relate to MsManhattan's comment:

The cinematography and lighting in this film are flawless -- but the thing that really stands out to me is the how nuanced the story is. When I discussed it with Aram, we had very different takes on it, and as I read some of the earlier posts I can see that people are really coming to it with different interpretations, which I think only makes it stronger.

Hey, Justin -- I just looked at your cast credits, and I see that my take on the story (the man in the doorway, etc.) was not accurate, based on the fact that the child is called "Young Mr. Nell" and the dude in the doorway is "Man" and was played by you, not your lead actor. However, even knowing that, I still love that the story is complex and interesting enough, and the cinematography is such that as a viewer you can still find a lot of different ways to read the story. And, that it was compelling enough that I had to stop watching other films and go looking for the credits to try to discern the answer to my question... Once again, excellent job. And kudos to your family -- very nice to see that it was a family affair!

I love that there are different interpretations, but because that was not our intention for some of the scenes we will need to take a closer look at possible weaknesses in the story. There have been a few people that did not make the connection that the "flashback" scene was of Mr. Nell as a child being molested by somebody... dad, uncle, family friend, whoever. We tried to make this connection via the pictures and costume. The pictures were that of Mr. Nell as a child... he sees the one of himself dressed in a super-hero costume and it triggers a memory of his scared childhood of molestation... So the flashback shows Mr. Nell as a child in bed. He has fallen asleep in the same costume shown in the picture (with the idea that he may have worn it often as a child). We used the costume in the picture and in the flashback for several reasons.

- to show that it was Mr. Nell as a child. We see the pic of him as a child in a costume. Then in the flashback we see the costume again. Tim and I wanted this to be the link that showed that the child in bed was the young Mr. Nell.

- to show the innocence of childhood; the joys of immagination and dreams (of becoming a superhero for example).

- to show that perhaps Mr. Nell's powers are in fact real, which stems from the idea that maybe he had the powers as a child and therefor felt inclined to wear the costume. The powers might have been the one thing that couldn't be taken away by his molestor. The costume gave him a sense of power in a powerless setting.

I thought that the connection would be made that it was Mr. Nell as a child. Since some did not see it this way, Tim and I will take a closer look as to why.

As for the girl on the scooter and the pedophile in the car... we assumed that this might be taken a few different ways. We felt that the core purpose of the scene would remain in tack regardless. So far, I get the impression that it did.

And yes, I did wonder how you did the bat hit. It was flawless. It shocked me. I kept wondering how the heck you did it, because it looks amazingly real. I actually wondered if you used a foam bat for the quick strike, and then when the actor's hand goes out of frame, replaced with bat with a real one. I couldn't figure it out. So you did it with effects. Expertly done. It was a shocker. Worth watching if anyone hasn't seen it yet!

I'm glad to hear it. Since many around here are FX types, I was surprised that nobody had mentioned it. Anyway, thanks for the info on this.

Wow. Beautifully shot! Simply lovely to look at and the attention to detail in the shot selection is fantastic. Your lead actor was wonderful. Only complaints would be I would have liked to have seen some more work down with the sound and score. Overall, one of my favorite films in the contest.

Chris

Thanks for taking a look and leaving comments. Score, we agree. Was there anything specific about the sound that bothered you? We ate up most of our audio post-production time with the sound (dialog, background noise, room tone, sound FX etc). We were pretty happy with the end result (sound, not score), but would love to know if other's see something that we missed. Thanks for the kind words!

Great comments by all. Big time thanks!

 

[snodart]

And kudos to your family -- very nice to see that it was a family affair!

Yes! Our families and friends were a huge help in all of this. We would have never been able to do it without them. BTW, my wife (Tim's sister) played the woman in the clock shop and my daughter played the girl on the scooter and the child in the bedroom flashback. My daughter did amazing. She (5 years old) was very concerned about which way the cape should lay and the position of her feet during the bedroom scene. She held so still once she heard action, we often forgot that it was her and not a prop. My wife was beyond helpfully and understanding with all the time away from home shooting. I am a stay-at-home dad, so the time away was a healthy break for me. My wife also played a big role in critiquing our ideas and my edits. It is great to have an outside and fresh opinion when you become so deeply involved with your own creation that you become blind to it. Gotta love that family thing.

Tim's was a huge help as well, but I will let him do the honors.

 

[sean90291]

I wonder if some people didn't make the connection between your protagonist's own experience of abuse because the abuser (who walks in on the kid) looks a bit like the protagonist. In a short film, without much dialogue, maybe the audience is confusing your actors. I mean, maybe they looked too much alike. If the "abuser" had been much older, or with distinctive features, it might have worked better.

You're definitely asking good questions of yourself. And as you already exhibit quite a sizeable talent for creatiing provocative imagery on film, you'll end up making some amazing films by insisting your story is just as strong. I can't wait to see your next film, because Cache shows a lot of potential.

As for what you could have done to make the story "stronger," what about if there was more ambiguity about whether he was seeing the future or not. How could you accomplish this? Maybe between the therapist and the protagonist. Maybe just a couple of liines that cast doubt as to whether he's seeing the future or not. Because if it's his mental illness/imagination, then there might be an inconsistency that the therapist points out. Then the protagonist struggles with it. Also, maybe the villain (the child molestor) has not actually committed anything yet. So when your hero kills him, he's done something pre-emptively. And the question is, would the guy ever really have committed such a crime or not. Was it the hero's delusion or was it the truth. (See Minority Report: is it a crime to have possibly committed something in the future?). As it stands, your cahracter seems to clearly see the future. And so when he breaks down at the end and asks "what have I done" I can't help feeling like he did the only thing he could have in the circumstances: we don't really have any doubt that he could see the future. To hit it home, we need to have some doubt about his powers. Maybe he has to realize his powers are not really "powers" after all, just before he breaks down. Some evidence that it MIGHT be his imagination. It ain't easy, I agree. Making good films ain't easy. And you're getting real close.

 

[theloniusjones]

Tim's was a huge help as well, but I will let him do the honors.

Yeah, Justin and I are really lucky in that not only do our wives not mind that we do this, we're actually finding out that they're pretty decent amateur actresses. My wife was originally penciled in to play the woman in the clock shop, but because we were limited as to the amount of time we had to shoot in the clock shop, and traffic was bad, meaning my wife would have been late, we called Justin's wife (my sister) at the last minute, and she came from work and did it. Justin has 2 kids and I have an 18 month old, and our wives were both covering for us while we were shooting this, playing both the mom and dad roles. The day that we did the clock shop scene my wife was watching both families! She was a tremendous part of this.

I'm also really interested to hear more about what you felt didn't work about the molestation scene, or at least why it wasn't clear that it was a flashback to the main character as a child being molested by someone, likely an uncle or maybe his father. I think it was my idea to use the picture of the main character as a child in a superhero costume, then cut to him as a child in bed with the same costume on to partially use as a link to make the flashback clear, and also to suggest some presence of superpowers dating back to his childhood, and an early interest in using those powers to help others. I also thought it would suggest that the character's idealism as a child had been shattered by what this person did to him. We had some other ideas as far as how to create the main character's motivation for wanting to hurt this pedophile, but we settled on this one. We did question how all of this would come across, so it's be great to hear more about your thoughts on what we might have done differently.

As far as the score goes, that was my responsibilty. I recently ditched my PC and bought a mac and digital performer, and the task of learning it and finishing the sound design and score in the time I had with working full time was a bit too much. Snod came through with some last minute score though which I thought definitely improved what we were about to submit. Looking forward to improving this part of our work in future stuff though.

Thanks for the comments everyone!

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Wow. I'm impressed snodart/theloniusjones. I thought this was excellent. Your lighting and cinematography worked beautifully, and your lead actor was great. His performance was very nuanced and he's very talented. I thought how you potrayed the abuse was perfect.

I really enjoyed it. A lot of thought went into this and you jammed so much information into the visuals. Great work.

 

[snodart]

I wonder if some people didn't make the connection between your protagonist's own experience of abuse because the abuser (who walks in on the kid) looks a bit like the protagonist. In a short film, without much dialogue, maybe the audience is confusing your actors. I mean, maybe they looked too much alike. If the "abuser" had been much older, or with distinctive features, it might have worked better.

This is the only thing I can think of. I'm pretty sure that you nailed it.

As for what you could have done to make the story "stronger," what about if there was more ambiguity about whether he was seeing the future or not. How could you accomplish this? Maybe between the therapist and the protagonist. Maybe just a couple of liines that cast doubt as to whether he's seeing the future or not. Because if it's his mental illness/imagination, then there might be an inconsistency that the therapist points out. Then the protagonist struggles with it. Also, maybe the villain (the child molestor) has not actually committed anything yet. So when your hero kills him, he's done something pre-emptively. And the question is, would the guy ever really have committed such a crime or not. Was it the hero's delusion or was it the truth. (See Minority Report: is it a crime to have possibly committed something in the future?). As it stands, your cahracter seems to clearly see the future. And so when he breaks down at the end and asks "what have I done" I can't help feeling like he did the only thing he could have in the circumstances: we don't really have any doubt that he could see the future. To hit it home, we need to have some doubt about his powers. Maybe he has to realize his powers are not really "powers" after all, just before he breaks down. Some evidence that it MIGHT be his imagination. It ain't easy, I agree. Making good films ain't easy. And you're getting real close.

Excellent points. You seem to have a very good understanding of what our intentions were so I am taking your comments with high regard. I think the key as you mentioned is "...we don't really have any doubt that he could see the futur." This is most definitely something that we were going for: a sense of doubt that the "ability" was real. The problem with tyring to do this was that we didn't want the viewer to write Mr. Nell off as just crazy, but we did want them to question, at least to some extent, if the ability was real. We wanted the attack to feel very displaced and brutal so that any closeness that the viewer felt with Mr. Nell was jolted away. So I guess you could say that the idea was to gently bring the viewer onto the side of Mr. Nell (or at least feel compassion for him) and then jerk them away when he attacks the pedophile so brutally.... leaving them questioning their own actions, opinions, beliefs, etc. After the bat hit, we wanted the viewer to almost feel guilty for having fallen on the side of Mr. Nell (even if it was slight). Almost as if they took part in the attack in some small way. Now, how well we accomplished this... is hard to say. Probably close to impossible to squeeze this much into 6 minutes. Judging by the comments, I think it may have worked this way for some and not for others. I'm so glad we attempted a more complex story. It has proven to be a great learning experience.

I would love to hear more about this from others as well if anyone is up to it.

I'm guessing that Tim and I will be discussing this point to some extent (over some cold one's of course).

Thank you for your time! Great stuff.

 

[snodart]

Wow. I'm impressed snodart/theloniusjones. I thought this was excellent. Your lighting and cinematography worked beautifully, and your lead actor was great. His performance was very nuanced and he's very talented. I thought how you potrayed the abuse was perfect.

I really enjoyed it. A lot of thought went into this and you jammed so much information into the visuals. Great work.

Isaac, many, many thanks.

 

[Rasquachemedia]

i finally saw all the films and this one by far had the best look, it was the most filmic.

A previous post said there were similarities with Unbreakable, but rather than a negative critique I would take it as a compliment because I really do think you achieved a look and feel that is comparable to a film of that caliber.

My comments are above are based on the cinematography and the acting. your lead has the look.

I also liked the dark superhero, again it kinda resembles Unbreakable here, but even takes it further.

Critical comments would be on the editing (specifically the pace) and the screenplay. Of course I would have liked to know and see more of the superhero, more dimension per say. Overall i think the story could use a little more work.

Let me go back to the pace. I really liked that you took your time and allowed us to "absorb" the canvass, but there were parts that I think could have been a bit shorter. It almost feels delayed at some points.

Again major props for your accomplishment with this film. Let me tell you exactly what i loved, the opening scene and the one where he's lugging out the clock from the van. for me those scenes just look great.

 

[Blaine]

This is the only thing I can think of. I'm pretty sure that you nailed it.

I think the key as you mentioned is "...we don't really have any doubt that he could see the futur." This is most definitely something that we were going for: a sense of doubt that the "ability" was real. The problem with tyring to do this was that we didn't want the viewer to write Mr. Nell off as just crazy, but we did want them to question, at least to some extent, if the ability was real. We wanted the attack to feel very displaced and brutal so that any closeness that the viewer felt with Mr. Nell was jolted away. So I guess you could say that the idea was to gently bring the viewer onto the side of Mr. Nell (or at least feel compassion for him) and then jerk them away when he attacks the pedophile so brutally.... leaving them questioning their own actions, opinions, beliefs, etc. After the bat hit, we wanted the viewer to almost feel guilty for having fallen on the side of Mr. Nell (even if it was slight). Almost as if they took part in the attack in some small way. Now, how well we accomplished this... is hard to say. Probably close to impossible to squeeze this much into 6 minutes. Judging by the comments, I think it may have worked this way for some and not for others. I'm so glad we attempted a more complex story. It has proven to be a great learning experience.

I would love to hear more about this from others as well if anyone is up to it.

This is exactly what struck me the most and what I touched on in my original review.

You spent a good deal of time setting up Mr. Nell's psychosis. Juxtapose that with an alternate reality and you are left questioning what is real. Just as was Mr. Nell. For me, this being a super hero exhibition and all, I took Mr. Nell's apparent psychosis as being true super human powers. This story really reminded me of the issues raised in Bill Paxton's movie, Frailty. What's real and what isn't.

I love stories that leave you wondering what's real and what isn't. That is what strikes such a chord with about your story. There's no definite answer. We don't know if he's crazy or has some super power to "see the future." Again, that's a testiment to the story telling. It would have been easy to say, "yes, he's a superhero" or "yes, he's crazy" but you didn't take the easy way out. You are letting the viewer make that decision for himself. And there really is no wrong answer. :thumbsup:

 

[Chris Messineo]

Thanks for taking a look and leaving comments. Score, we agree. Was there anything specific about the sound that bothered you? We ate up most of our audio post-production time with the sound (dialog, background noise, room tone, sound FX etc). We were pretty happy with the end result (sound, not score), but would love to know if other's see something that we missed. Thanks for the kind words!

First, you have to realize I am being extra picky, because there is so much to like, I have to dig to find something to improve.

As for the sound, take the second to last scene where he attacks the guy. The sounds are a little too distant and hollow, for my taste. Also there are a few sounds missing, like the footsteps of him walking into the apartment. Subtle things, but I think they can add to the richness of the film.

I hope that helps,

Chris

 

[snodart]

First, you have to realize I am being extra picky, because there is so much to like, I have to dig to find something to improve.

As for the sound, take the second to last scene where he attacks the guy. The sounds are a little too distant and hollow, for my taste. Also there are a few sounds missing, like the footsteps of him walking into the apartment. Subtle things, but I think they can add to the richness of the film.

I hope that helps,

Chris

Thanks. I agree. Tim and I played with that audio for a long time. We listened to the same sounds for so long that I think eventually it somehow sounded right at the time. Having had a break from seeing and hearing it... the bathroom scene, the knock at door, the pedophile's "uhhhggg", all have that hollowness to them. I'm pretty certain it was adjustments we made in Digital Performer. Tim is still getting acquainted with DP and I have never used it... what better way to learn right. We are going to work on the score this weekend, so Tim and I will most likely spend some time with these. The footsteps we left out intentionally, but I see your point. I should say that there was a lot of foley work that Tim headed up. Of course most of it goes unnoticed since he did a great job.

I'm glad you mentioned this. We will be working on it for the finalized version.

I understand that you said you are being 'extra picky', but thank you for doing so. If it can be done better, then it should be done better. I'm just glad that we have a chance to make some changes for the final version.

Thanks for the help and the great compliments as well.

 

[heisest]

Very disturbing film and non traditional hero. Well done.
It moved me to both pitty the guy and be a bit horrified at the end.
There might not have been much acting per say... but it was done to perfection.

 

[snodart]

Very disturbing film and non traditional hero. Well done.
It moved me to both pitty the guy and be a bit horrified at the end.
There might not have been much acting per say... but it was done to perfection.

Thank you for the input.

I'm not sure I agree with this though:

There might not have been much acting per say

At any rate, we appreciate you comments.

Thanks.

 

[Kaz]

I enjoyed this. Reminded me of a darker "Unbreakable". The acting was a definite strong point. I also like that the beating was in a silhouette & mostly not seen. Your imagination can do far more damage to that guy than a filmmaker showing it.

Good job!

 

[concannon]

There might not have been much acting per say... but it was done to perfection.

Thank you for your input. I was hoping you would expand on your comment. When you say "not much acting", do you mean that your disagreed with some of the acting choices or did you find the presentation lacking in the respect that through the acting it was unable to "suspend disbelief"? Your thoughts are welcome....so please expand if you will.

A lot of the preparation had to do with emotional instinct as opposed to intense character study, simply because in 6 minutes we are given "Bullet Points" and not afforded the luxury of getting to know the Character over a two hour time frame. So, in this role I did take some risks as far as choices outside of what I would normally play. I tried to attack it form the convention that have to paint the entire canvas of that character in a short amount of time.

This is what I tried to map out for myself and this may or may not go along with what Justin and Tim had in mind so they may say something different as this character is they're own interpretation which supersedes mine...

...so here goes.

I wanted to show the character unravel in a linear sense as the film progressed. Starting with the doctor's office (I think that was the first scripted scene in the original script?). I wanted to protray Mr. Nell in the "Actual World" as far as he is at his most real or without his defenses while he is talking with the doctor. To him the exchange is real.

In the watch shop scene he is smug and a little cocky, perhaps rude as I wanted to show that his interaction with the woman required a mask of sorts as his way of hiding. From my reading about children who have experienced traumatic events such as molestation or abuse, adopt ways to escape within themselves. These are survival techniques. As far as carrying those elements into adulthood, those same adopted attributes now used as a reaction are anti-social in the respect that they prohibit the person from any real or sustained emotional connection or contact with another human being. Akin to what I have experienced in observing adults with post traumatic stress disorder.

I believe that the character in some way blamed himself, even though as a child he was defenseless. I interpreted the young Mr. Nell wearing the suit with the rational that if he wore the suit, he would be strong "this time" and defeat the evil "molester". As if the suit was to give him some type of protection. I am sure that he believed it because he had to...and I think that is what makes him more broken. I remember as a small child being able to believe in God and superheros with no reservation or doubt. The fact that he wears the suit and it does not work for him to me fell along the lines that his perception of God had turned his back on him. From there it was easy to create in my head this character that feels nothing but emptiness, his actions are a way to escape and deal with the past...we know that the character believes that he can see into the future but at the same time it is left up to the audience to deiced if he is crazy or not. I am rambling here

Side note: I have not seen "Unbreakable" but I am interested to see it know that there have been references to it...interesting.

Anyway, thank you for the comment and I would love to here more interpretation.

 

[snodart]

Wow Dave. Thanks. That was good for me to read.

Side note: I have not seen "Unbreakable" but I am interested to see it know that there have been references to it...interesting.

This is hard to believe coming from a guy who has seen more movies than a Blockbuster Video store.


I think the main links to unbreakable are the average joe in a realistic setting discovering that he has an extraordinary ability.... or in the case or Mr. Nell, the possiblity of having such an ability. The one link that probably made it official is the hood, but it seemed the only way to go. Ski mask, sunglasses, mask, etc would have failed miserably in this case I think.

 

[concannon]

Justin,
I hate to tell you reason I never saw the film. I remember watching the trailer and for some reason it looked like Bruce Willis was wearing caked on black eyeliner....I had to seriously ask myself if I was willing to sit through two hours of Bruce Willis and his eyeliner. Wierd....

 

[Chris Messineo]

Snodart,

One more question. Did you ever consider having a little blood hit the window shade in the scene with the bat? Not a lot mind you, but just a slight spatter.

Chris

 

[mrpunch]

David, I thought this was the best acting in the fest. It was the other element that made this one stand out for me. The other element was cinematography. But there is a difference between shooting great shots and shooting great shots of a great subject! So, you guys hit the combo, imo. I guess there wasn't a moment that I didn't totally believe. Your performance had layers - and depth - and that's a hard thing to do without an acting partner and a lot of dialogue! As an actor, it is an inspiring performance to watch.

Justin - congrats overall. I agree that at the end - your imagination can provide even more terror than showing us the 'beating'. I liked that. I do like the suggestion of something like a splatter of blood or something as well.