One for Mikko... HVX + M2 + Flyer

H

Haakon

Veteran
I'm smack dab in the middle of filming a short feature with the HVX right now, but I received a photo from one of the EPK guys and thought I'd share it since Mikko has requested some pictures of the HVX on a Flyer many times and since I'm usually busy being behind the camera, I never get to take any! This is pretty much the rig I've been using on the shoot... the HVX with the Redrock M2 adapter, Nikon lenses, wireless follow focus, and 7" Marshall at the bottom. Please excuse the crudity of the monitor hood made from crinkled black wrap... we were shooting outside in blaring sunlight and it was the only thing I had to keep my picture clean! :-) I've got lots more photos and I will be happy to answer any questions people have about shooting with the camera or the M2 or anything else once we're wrapped, but I have a solid two weeks of shooting ahead of me and I have to get back to set!

Enjoy,

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Super neat looking setup. A shrink might make more of my comment than others but I think you should consider either repositioning or changing the angle of one of your devices.
 
Believe me, I've massaged every angle of every device possible and I've got it calibrated to a "t"! The rig is unbelievably front heavy on top due to the M2 adapter and follow focus (which is why I'm also not using a mattebox when I'm on the Steadicam), but it's been working great. You can see how far back the baseplate is on the sled - it almost looks like it's defying gravity! I can't lower the batteries any because the screw that holds them up loosens when you put pressure on it (the only real design flaw I've found with the Flyer) and if they are angled down any more, they don't stay up. The Marshall with a battery is also quite heavy and needs a lot of compensation in the back. In case you're thinking it looks a little crooked because the unit is tilted forward in the photo, it's just because I was shooting something at a high angle and intentionally aiming downward. I haven't had any trouble keeping balance with the HVX on the Flyer at all - they really are a teriffic combo! In fact, the director has requested several times that I just jump in and get pickups with the Steadicam even for static shots that we'd normally get on sticks because it's so much faster to get into place and it's really that rock solid. I can't post any footage yet, but I'm sure it will start coming down the pipeline in a few months time.
 
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Don't worry scrappy, I got your joke. Yowch one wrong move with that thing and you can kiss procreation goodbye. LOL :)
 
Nice picture! :thanks:

Enough cables on that rig? :laugh:

Are you running the BFD from a battery belt? - what's wrong with the rig's batteries? (and same goes for the monitor in fact!) What motor are you using?

Blackwarp is cool - whatever works :)

A note about your operating position: - as others have mentioned - you are takign quite a risk there. Of either blowing your shot, or somethign else. - you should stand with the rig either closer by yoru side, or stand more side on with the rig across the front of your body. - but out in front of you with the batteries back there will also tire you out quicker.

You can use the same T-handle wrench you use for the gimble to tighten the battery and monitor mounts - just don't over do it.

- Mikko
 
I want to know how much better the M2 is over the Mini35 and such. Any quick thoughts?
 
I want to know if the SGPro is better or as good as the M2. I've had some email correspondence with Wayne Kinney and he said it should be better (with a LOL for good measure) :)

Would be a cheaper alternative for us, with the extra shipping costs to the UK for the M2 (SGPro is made in the UK).
 
Kholi,

There are a couple of issues that separate the M2 and the Mini35. Light loss and image orientation. The Mini35 has a system built in it that flips the image to right side up. While that makes things simpler both in the field and in post, it robs a lot of light. Can't find the thread right now, but somebody on this forum posted that they had shot a commercial for an auto parts company with the Mini35 outdoors and had to add gain.

The M2 leaves the image upside down, but the unit itself doesn't seem to steal any light. I did an experiment when James at Redrock sent me one the the new Cine Screens. I set up a gray card and lit it. I mounted an F1.4 50mm lens onto the M2 without the camera. I took a spot meter reading of the image of the gray card on the ground glass in the M2. Then took a spot meter reading of the gray card straight. There was only a 1 f-stop difference. So, If I had used an F1 lens, there would have been no light lost through the M2. That is pretty incredible. That means an F1.4 lens on the M2 needs twice as much light as the camera needs without the M2.

So, with the Mini35, you get a right side up image. With the M2 you only loose the light the lens in front of the M2 steals.
 
The wireless follow focus looks like a Bartech. It is a pretty solid unit for the coin. I would suggest putting the receiver of the Bartech on the back of the camera, that way you could get a shade on your lens. I think the bartech with a microforce motor probably runs around 6k. Might be wrong. They are new since my cam. ass. days. if you got the dough though, go for a preston....
 
puredrifting said:
What project were you shooting Haakon?
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The name of the film is "The Faithful." The end runtime will probably be about 45 minutes... so it's kinda long for a "short" and too short for a full-fledged feature. So far, I'm very happy with the way it's going. We're about a week into production - not everything has been perfect (but when is it ever?) - and I will definitely get footage and stills and clips and all of that up in due time. We're shooting until the 15th, so I'm gonna be really busy until then. I do come on here a lot, though, so I'll try to get to people's questions before I crash each night. :-P

puredrifting said:
Where did you get the wireless FF from? Is it rented?
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Indeed it is. As others have pointed out, it's the Bartech device. Honestly, it's probably the coolest piece of camera-related equipment I've ever used. The thing is dead on every time, and even the smallest little feather movements are picked up. It does wonders for Steadicam work, but we haven't even taken it off of the rig even when we're just on sticks or a dolly. We're shooting most of this film WFO for many reasons (some creative choices, some out of necessity), and that means we've only got about an inch or two of depth of field in a lot of the shots. Because of that, you HAVE to be dead on with the focus and the Bartech device has risen to the challenge every time. I definitely wish I could buy one, but at ~$4,000 for the remote and the motor, I just can't swing it. I will say, however, that I am now entirely spoiled and I dunno how I'm going to get along without it.

derek1147 said:
Looks like a well-thought out rig Haakon. Do you mind if I post a link from the M2 forums (in the HVX section) to this thread? I know that I've seen a few M2 users looking for a way to make their M2/HVX portable. Thanks.
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No, not at all - go right ahead! I am a member of the Redrock forums, but I didn't want to make any posts until I got my unit. As it turns out, it arrived just last Thursday and we started shooting on Friday - so this shoot has literally been trial by fire. Of course that's not the way I would have preferred to do any shoot, but it was what it was and the worst case scenario was that we'd have to just use the HVX bare. I'm still having some issues with it, but I will say that for me, the tradeoffs are worth the benefits of the shallow depth of field. I have been very happy with the results, even though I'm sure they'll be picked apart.

caseyhayward said:
Don't worry scrappy, I got your joke. Yowch one wrong move with that thing and you can kiss procreation goodbye. LOL
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Sorry, I totally missed that one the first time. :) I've been getting about 4 hours of sleep a night and it just went right over my head! I am happy to report that the family jewels are still safe and sound. :-P

mikkowilson said:
Nice picture! :thanks:
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No problem. :) I promised you one about three months ago, so please accept my apologies for taking so long to get one online!

mikkowilson said:
Enough cables on that rig?
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Honestly, as long as the system is self-contained, I don't mind. I just don't like having to be tethered to external sources while I'm flying. The beauty with the HVX is that you can pull clips up instantly, so the director can review something and make sure it's what he wants - and I don't have to be connected to a myriad of other cables while I'm shooting. I know what the director wants and he knows he can trust my judgement - so our system works out pretty well. But yes, there are quite a few cables. :)

mikkowilson said:
Are you running the BFD from a battery belt? - what's wrong with the rig's batteries? (and same goes for the monitor in fact!) What motor are you using?
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Yes I am. I wouldn't mind using the rig's power (as it is, the batteries on the Steadicam are actually only being used for weight - they aren't powering anything!) but getting the right cables and adapters to make everything work was too much of a hassle and financial burden. The belt weighs next to nothing and the monitor has its own battery, so it just seemed like the logical choice to do things the way we did. We actually ran the wireless F.F. for four whole days on one charged belt (we have four of them), so it's been working out well. I'd love to power the HVX off of the rig if I could, but I don't know of any way to do that personally...

The monitor is one of those 7" Marshall guys... the V-R70P-HDA perhaps? It's "HD" just as much as the HVX is... but it has worked out very well and I can get sharp focus from it just as well if not better than the HVX with its focus assist. We're also using 17" Panasonic BT-LH1700W monitors when I'm not using Steadicam, and those are a very good pair with the HVX as well. As far as I'm concerned, the HVX LCD is next to useless and you can't judge focus from the HVX off of the Flyer's default SD monitor so the Marshall is a good choice. I think they're roughly $1,300 or so to buy (we're renting).

mikkowilson said:
You can use the same T-handle wrench you use for the gimble to tighten the battery and monitor mounts - just don't over do it.
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Oh I know that - it's just that the weight of the batteries pulls down in the same direction that you loosen the screw - not tighten it. That's a huge problem if you have a lot of weight on there. I've tried reversing all of the parts to try to fix the issue, but I can't get it to do anything differently. Most of the time it's no big deal, but it shouldn't be that way nonetheless.

mikkowilson said:
I want to know how much better the M2 is over the Mini35 and such. Any quick thoughts?
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I haven't used the Mini35 before and my experience with the M2 is limited to this shoot, so I'm not an expert on those by any means. As I mentioned earlier, the M2 isn't flawless but for the price and the options it gives you, it's very, very good. I think this new footage looks more "film-like" than anything else I've ever shot digitally, including "big" cameras like the Varicam.

J P said:
Where did you buy your M2?
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From redrockmicro.com. I don't think they ship to resellers... at least not yet anyway. It took about 5 1/2 weeks to get and I had to really put the pressure on them in the last couple of weeks to get it in time for this shoot, but to their credit they did come through.

I have noticed more dramatic light loss from my M2 than others are reporting, but then again I don't feel that the HVX is a strong performer in low light situations to begin with. I think the footage is more pleasing in low light with the adapter on than without it, so that's a big plus. The image does indeed come in upside-down, but that's a minor annoyance. The Marshall monitor acutally has screw mounts on all four sides so you can easily rotate it 180 degrees to get around that. This is how I'm using it on the Steadicam.
 
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Haakon, are you using the new Redrock HD acromat they have just released? its 72mm rather than 55mm, and designed for HD cameras. I know they are available straight away but haven't found out how much better it is than the standard 55mm acromat.
 
Bummer about the BFD power cable. - You sure the rental house didn't have a 2-pin Lemo -> 2-pin Lemo cable to run the BFD from the sled? Strange. But hey, as long as it works! :thumbsup:

Also, quick note: I didn't ask the Mini35 comparison question...


- Mikko
 
darwinandpaine said:
Please tell us more about that wireless follow focus. That sounds REALLY cool!
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It looks like a Bartek wireless FF system. They are inexpensive compared to a Preston.

For low budget or entry level I recommend them. They are good solid working devices.

EDIT: Nevermind...I didn't see there was a 2nd page....doh.
 
Steve Shovlar said:
Haakon, are you using the new Redrock HD acromat they have just released? its 72mm rather than 55mm, and designed for HD cameras. I know they are available straight away but haven't found out how much better it is than the standard 55mm acromat.
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I wasn't aware the HD achromat existed before our shoot (in fact, I don't think it was even announced until after we started filming), so no - I'm just using the "standard" one. I certainly would've liked to have been told that there was an HD version right around the corner, but it's not like I was going to postpone the project just for that anyway. It would be interesting to see how the new glass affects the picture - I'm having a heck of a time dealing with soft edges (as I have read many other M2 users have), and there will be some shots that are compromised as a result of that. I have tried making adjustments and tweaking the setup of the adapter, but as I mentioned, I literally got it the night before the first day of our shoot, the days have been 12-14 hours long, and there is very little downtime to mess with things. I also have to have everything ready to go at all times, so I won't really be able to "tinker" until after this film is done, unfortunately. I might get the new achromat, but they're selling it for $400 and unless someone needs an SD one sometime soon, I don't really have the money to be shelling out for it especially now that the film is almost over. Would have been nice to try though, absolutely.

I feel that even with soft edges, however, the footage looks several times better with the adapter than it does without it. Your tastes may vary.

mikkowilson said:
Bummer about the BFD power cable. - You sure the rental house didn't have a 2-pin Lemo -> 2-pin Lemo cable to run the BFD from the sled? Strange. But hey, as long as it works!
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Yerp. They said they could make one, but it would take about 2 weeks and cost about $300. The alternative was wearing the belt. I chose the belt.

mikkowilson said:
Also, quick note: I didn't ask the Mini35 comparison question...
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Sorry, I was quoting several people and the DVXUser forum software doesn't have a "multiple post" quote option (as far as I know), so I had to do them all by hand. My mistake! :)
 
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