anyone tried andromeda?

C

Cheesesailor77

Veteran
Just wondering who has experience...

I'm looking for a new camera, but it looks like this is about the same price as a HVX, and with 4:4:4

what am I missing?
 
It's a pretty impressive machine. I met with the guys last summer and they showed me their newest model.

It takes a lot of harddrive space, and you're limited to using only a mac for right now, but it seems worth it.
 
For overalll usability and portability the HVX to mind would be a better option. I saw a 35mm blow up from a HVX recently which totally turned me around on the HVX. Of course 4:2:2 isn not 4:4:4, but the HVX shone... Im fairly certain I will get one in the near future.. before August anyway.
 
well andromeda shoots something like 990p HD so blowup shouldnt be much worse that HVX... right?

I'm curious just how much space it takes up, but that doesn't seem like that big a deal. And I use macs anyway.

How long of a firewire cable can u use?
 
I was told by Larry McKee, the writer of some of the articles on the Redrock Micro site, that you will end up losing a lot of light when using the Andromeda upgrade; especially if you intend on using the 35mm adapter with it.

If you look at a lot of the sample footage on the Andromeda site, most of the shots are outside because sunlight is a great light source. However, I was disappointed and a little skeptical when I saw the lack of footage from indoors with artificial lighting. You would probably need some pretty powerful lights in order to expose correctly.

Anyways, I don't how valid these opinions are, but I opted to go with the HVX and haven't looked back.
 
Hi ..
I'm an Andromeda user..

It's a pretty nice system in my opinion. Check my website for some examples.

The data rate of the raw take files is about 28 mb per sec. It's great because you can just record to cheap harddrives and back up to data DVDs. It only cost me a couple of hundred dollars to have a capture array that holds 4 hours of uncompressed HD 4:4:4 at 1540x984 frame sizes (rendered)

Check the reel-stream site for workflow and other info.
 
aravance said:
I was told by Larry McKee, the writer of some of the articles on the Redrock Micro site, that you will end up losing a lot of light when using the Andromeda upgrade; especially if you intend on using the 35mm adapter with it.

If you look at a lot of the sample footage on the Andromeda site, most of the shots are outside because sunlight is a great light source. However, I was disappointed and a little skeptical when I saw the lack of footage from indoors with artificial lighting. You would probably need some pretty powerful lights in order to expose correctly.
Click to expand...

Not true, it's actually more sensitive.

Plus, the andromeda taps the CCD's directly before the data gets processed. You end up getting 2.5 more stops of exposure on the top end (highlight detail).

This is how it breaks down:

DVX to tape: 7 stops exposure lattitude
HVX to P2: 7 or less (due to all those pixels crammed on that lil' chip)

DVX with Andromeda - 9.5 stops.

Just for comparison,
the Varicam is 8.5 stops,
and the Panavision Genesis (at over 100K) is 11 stops.

That means the DVX with Andromeda gives you 1540x984, full RGB color, and 9.5 stops of dynamic range for well under 10K, with footage that only costs 50 cents per gig to capture (as compared to P2 at hundreds per gig)... at well under 10K.

Remember, the battle is in the area of dynamic range (lattitude). This is what separates 'film like from 'video like'.

The only workflow drawback is time and a little bigger footprint, that's it. For a cinematographer that has limited resources and is truly interested in maximum image quality, I don't really see any other choice right now. (no offense to current HVX users)
 
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Hey matt! I just saw your footage you posted earlier this month. It looks good, but some of the shots looked REALLY noisey. Can you tell me about that?

I'm pretty confident I'm buying a MacbookPro, could I plug the camera into that and record the data into a external harddrive through firewire? How do most ppl do it?

Again, do you know the length limit of usb2.0 cable you can use? How far away from "the cart" can u get?
 
Hello Cheesesailor,

First I'd like to point out that Andromeda does NOT cause any lightloss. Any lightloss is associated with using any 35mm adapter. Andromeda does not change the amount of light coming into the lens, or actually anything about the camera, other than adding a USB port on the side. All it does is 'peek' into the RAW uncompressed output from the sensors, and send it out the USB port.

As Matthew pointed out, Andromeda records wider dynamic range, specially in the highlights by about 2 - 2.5 stops from what the DVX normally does.

We've successfully tested USB cables up to 45ft or so using 2 of the BAFO Technolgies active USB extender cables.

Our capture/processing software, SculptorHD is now a Universal binary so it will run natively on both PowerPC and Intel computers.

I am actually sitting at the Vegas airport heading back home from NAB, I was surprised by amount of positive feedback I received concerning the image quality of Andromeda + DVX comapred to the HVX. I believe our system offers a very unique quality of footage for those who want to do color correction for a filmic and unique look. I also point out to everybody that if you are running around in a warzone doing run-and-gun work, then this is probably not for you. If your work setup already uses a monitor or computer attached to the camera, or you will be working in a setup that allows it, then the system should open up a lot of new artistic possibilities.

Hope this helps,
Juan
 
Cheesesailor77 said:
Hey matt! I just saw your footage you posted earlier this month. It looks good, but some of the shots looked REALLY noisey. Can you tell me about that?

I'm pretty confident I'm buying a MacbookPro, could I plug the camera into that and record the data into a external harddrive through firewire? How do most ppl do it?

Again, do you know the length limit of usb2.0 cable you can use? How far away from "the cart" can u get?
Click to expand...

The noise in that footage is 'cause I was experimenting with over-sharpening the image so it would survive the blurring of h.264 compression..
The actual frames you get when rendering from sculptor are hardly noisy at all. The noise isn't really noise, either, it's very even, not blocky in any way... it's more like a film grain.
Look at the full res stills on the reel-stream site, you'll see.
.. and listen to Juan he's the master of it all..
 
pertierr said:
Our capture/processing software, SculptorHD is now a Universal binary so it will run natively on both PowerPC and Intel computers.
Click to expand...

Juan, just to clarify, you mean that this will run on Mac's with either a PowerPC or Intel processor, right? There's no Windows version of the software yet, right? If there is that's great news. But last I read it was being limited to Mac for quality assurance purposes. Anyway, just got me thinking and I figured I'd ask.
 
ovjamaica,

That's correct, we do not have a Windows version yet. The main reasons have to do with the many different variations in PC hardware, and the need for custom drivers for each type of hardware.

Cheers,
Juan

:costumed-smiley-047 eat your greens
 
thank you for the info.

Again, what kind of setup is usual for andromeda. What equipment do most ppl use to get the footage onto disk. a laptop and a external harddrive? a desktop on a cart?

I'm seriously thinking about going the andromeda route, but i've never shot tethered before so I'm trying to understand how it works.

thanks
 
Cheesesailor,

Basically, Andromeda can work with any modern Mac computer. The only exception is that the system cannot be used to capture on a G5 computer, this is because the G5 machines have a slower USB bus, although you can still process/render on a G5 just fine.

Most people are using either a laptop(Powerbook, MacBook), or a Mac Mini. It depends on what is important to your setup. A laptop obviously offers the advantage of a built-in screen and battery. If you capture to the internal drive or a bus-powered external drive, then the entire setup is battery powered. A Mac Mini is cheaper, but it requires AC power and a screen/mouse/keyboard.

About hard disk drives, you can record to any drive that can sustain 28Mbyte/sec write speed. This is not a feat for modern 7200RPM drives. Most people are using external firewire bus-powered drives for recording. Because the data is completely uncompressed, most people use a dedicated external drive(s) for recording, treating tem like 'cartridges'. Average record time is about 1 hour per 100GB at full bandwidth RGB 24P 1.5k frame size with about 9.5-10 stops of dynamic range. If you use an anamorphic adapter then you get a 1.5k 1.85:1 uncompressed image.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
Juan
 
I too am an Andromeda user and as Matthew has said, there is no better system for video acquisition in this price range. The image quality I've been getting is far better than a stock DVX and as far as I know also better than an HVX (although I have to be honest, I've never used one). The workflow is pretty straightforward. In my case I attach, with velcro strips, my Powerbook to the back of a Glidecam vest and pretty much I am free to shoot anyway I want. The external HD is attached to the back of the powerbook screen with velcro aterstrips. The laptop is connected to a belt-pack battery wich gives me plenty of time to shoot without having to worry about the laptop battery dying on me. The external HD is bus powered.
Once the raw data is captured, it is processed through Sculptor and rendered to whatever format you wish to render.... In my case I render individual PNG frames at full resolution.
After that you are in color correction heaven, 'cause you have all the color information that a DVX can capture..... resulotion is also pretty decent, although a little on the soft side.... Perhaps later versions of the Sculptor software will remedy this. I've done quite a few jobs involving greenscreen compositions and I don't want to look back to either DV or HDV. Andromeda beat them hands down, in resolution and color fidelity and the fact that it is nor compressed.

I believe the Andromeda system is the logical step to a camera like RED or SiliconImaging and not the HVX, and that's why I opted for the DVX+Andromeda and not the HVX200 while I wait for the bigger toys (RED or SiliconImaging)

Juan.... is there a possibility that you can port Sculptor to PC just to use the render engine, with no capture? I suggest this because many of us have dual or quad PCs which can process the raw data faster than a Mac can.

later.
 
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i guess there's another advantage to Andromeda for DVX owners: you don't have to sell your DVX camera at a loss and buy a new HVX that will depreciate. It would still be cheaper to upgrade my DVX to Andromeda...if the picture is just as good, why wouldn't I?
 
If I am understanding things correctly, the Andromeda "taps" into the output of the chips. If one want to, could you still shoot strickly miniDV through the tape without using the Andromeda setup?
 
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it is my understanding that you can use the DV tape deck as you always have whether ur using the usb out or not.

Another question I have is resolution, it says you can get images of 1540x990. How do these images (res wise) compare to other HD/HDV cameras that shoot 720p and 1080p. Has anyone blown up footage shot with andromeda?
 
How does one deal with sound recording? I assume you either record it seperately or record audio direct to the dv tape then sync them in post?

Also, how secure is the USB placed on the dvx? What are the chances of it slipping out and the user not noticing?

It seems to me that the adromeda is more suitable for studio based recording?
 
All great questions...

The DVX itself continues to work exactly as it normally does. The operation of the DVX is completely separate from what you are doing in Sculptor and whether you are recording uncompressed or not. Think of it as 2-cameras-in-1, but they use the same lens.

You can record to DV wenever you choose to do so, whether uncompressed is being recorded or not.

Audio can be handled in different ways, one of them is to run the DV tape while recording uncompressed. The Andromeda frames are just very high-quality versions of the frames on DV tape, so when you take both the uncompresssed and DV footage onto an editing timeline, they line-up perfecty. So you can choose for example to use the DV video as offline editing footage(telecine), and then replace it with the uncompressed footage for a final render. Other people are recording separate audio, or even direct to the Mac computer.

The USB plug on the side of the DVX is securely attached to the frame of the camera, and the grip of the USB connection is the same as any standard USB-B connector on any hardware you have. This is the 'square' USB connector that is on the device side of USB hardware.

Here is a good discussion of pixel counts and resolution which includes Andromeda:http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=45853

Hope this helps,
Juan
 
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