HVX PAL Purchased! First Impressions (after full day of testing)

S

SPZ

Veteran
Finally got my HVX. Its model HVX200MC (which should mean Mainland China- I'm not too happy about that), and its a beauty! Quick first impressions:

The Bad

Noisy zoom (its true, and it gets picked on the on board mic.)
I did notice this varies from machine to machine (I tried 2).

Bad LCD- The bad thing for me its not only the resolution (which is low), but the smaller picture size you get on it due to the 16:9 aspect ratio. Its a smaller screen than the Sony, no doubt. I would most certainly pay 200 or 100 dolars more for a better LCD (don't tell me its not doable... Just look at Sony's PSP glorious LCD! And the whole package is 199!)

Fat momma- Its not the best looking piece of equipment, but the good points make it as sexy as Angelina Jolie!

Nothing else, really.

The EXCELENT

Picture Quality- You can get excelent quality movies and independent films with this. I'm more than sure about it. If you don't turn up the gain, at night in EXTREME situations, you get noise, but it looks like film noise. At day, its simply glorious, organic... Simply spectacular. Its on par, to the naked eye, to the Varicam. The cinegamma is great, the color is top notch... And the SKIN TONES- It is heads above the competition.

Variable Frame Rates- 50p looks smooth as 60p, just a bit faster. Its barelly noticeable, and ITS gorgeous... How I would like to share with you the 50p videos I've shot, but unfortunatelly, no Final Cut Pro support... Here's the link for everyone to keep sending feedback to Apple in order to get 720p 50 support

http://www.apple.com/feedback/finalcutpro.html


Better Macro- The HVX lens has excelent Macro ability. This is fantastic for DOF shots.

1080 25p (and 720p25) motion seems better than DVX's 25p motion. I don't know why, but it certainly looks more film like. Not as stuttery as the dvx one.


Some random observations:

1080p vs 720p- The Image looks similar on my 1080I Panasonic CRT, so, even tough this is not the best monitor to judge picture quality, it seems that shooting 720p is the most viable solution for the low capacity P2 cards. (I've got two 8gb's, and, without a P2 store, it was hard to manage the 17 minutes of recording time it allows- I can imagine the pain of someone working with just a 4gb!)

Slow Shutter- It seems theres some type of quality loss when on goes recording at 12 shutter. I did this because I needed to test how it looked in low light. It brought lower resolution. And you can only go to a 12 shutter in Video Cam mode. Strange.

Battery lasts longer than on the DVX. Not running tape makes for lower power consumption.

SD compared to the DVX- The lens is sharper, and there's less noise. Better than the DVX. (Haven't tried 4:3)

Overall, I'm more than Happy with the camera. This is a tool that can boost your production value, and, properly used, help you compete with the Big boys. Its not destined to be used mainly in reality TV work like the other popular HDV cameras. This camera can really go up there and compete with higher end models.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask them. I'm with the camera, and can put it to work!

(Actually, I did a 1 minute something clip in Final Cut Pro that I would like to share, but its just too damn big in size... 2gb!). I tried to compress it to h264, but it didn't do the picture justice... (And I can't seem to get the conversion to do 16:9! It always stretches the image! :( )

EDIT- Many thanks to Shun Hing Hong-Kong, Marcus and Phillip for the Hassle. You guys where excelent (I tried my HVX projected by a Panasonic High end projector, and the picture just looked like FILM- 35mm. And this is not a joke!)
 
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Emanuel said:
Parabéns Sérgio!
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Obrigado, Emanuel! É realmente uma pena não conseguir colocar isto na Net- porque filmei Macau ontem à tarde (céu nublado, infelizmente), e a imagem está simplesmente brilhante! (O noise é Não existente durante o dia. Hoje vou filmar à noite para ver o resultado.)

And one more thing that's making me happier... It is possible to edit on my Powerbook g4 1.65ghz PERFECTLY, with a Lacie d2 250gb drive. I'm talking about 1080p25 editing, and this is GREAT! I'm going to keep my powerbook for a Looong Time :) (no need for Macbook pro)

I really hope the 720p50 comes quickly... The slowmotion shots just look Incredible!

(encoding h264 in my powerbook takes a LOT more time than on my dual 2.7, tough... I'm trying to compress this footage and is asking for 3 hours !)
 
CONGRATS! SPZ GREAT! I'm sure that I will buy Hvx200 too soon (july) probably also the Canon! I'm thinkin' that buyin' both cameras it's the only way to do the right thing! Waitin' also for Nab, but I'm pretty sure that I will buy Hvx200 and an Xlh1 too!
Comparing prices of new 1/2 Xdcam and new 2/3 HD cam of Nab, you must buy an optic that is so pricey...that it's impossible. I don't want to spend 10000 euros or more for a lens (it's a waste of money), it's more intelligent buyin' also the Canon for low light stuff, and second camera.
I would suggest also to my friend Emanuel this strategy, It's a lot of time that I'm thinkin' about it!
Dear Emanuel according my analysis this could resolve ev'ry problem we have!
 
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Danilo, tonight I'll do some low light (Night time) shooting. Actually I did some already at a bar here in Macau. I'll shoot some more tonight- but natural, in the city neon kind of lights. I'll report on this soon!

The HVX is performing beyond my expectations. This is a wonderfull camera, no doubt.

As for the zoom noise issue, I'll not be zooming and recording with the internal mic at the same time, so it is not a major concern for me.
 
Obrigado/Thanks for your relevant input, Sérgio. And you too, Danilo, Grazie.

I'm waiting for the NAB and a shooting/screening test that maybe it can figure out what it will be the best bet. Here I've also some people interested to know the results of this film-out test. We will see...

The idea is to compare GV Infinity, HD7000 if available, PDW-F3xx, XL-H1, HVX and HD100 plus a 35mm adapter to a blow-up test.

Danilo, your one-in-two option it is actually a real possibility. The point is: maybe in the next future we will have other affordable options... RED? With cheap lenses like 35mm still photography ones? HD7000? Or perhaps not so affordable but a definitive noiseless & cinematic solution. 4K or native 1920x1080 3-CMOS@4:2:2 it will be simply amazing! When? That's the answer what we are looking for.

We'll be waiting for your expert HVX testing. Go ahead, Sérgio.
 
I'll definetly go for that testing! I'll post as soon as I have some results.

As for the Red... This seems like the ultimate digital film camera, but it would require just too much on a whole, compared to the HVX package.

I still remember someone quoting Robert Rodriguez in saying "Everyone has 20 Bad films in them before the good ones show up". I wouldn't say so much as 20, but some are definetly going to suck (or fall short to the director's talent), due to many, many factors, namelly teamwork (to do a film IS teamwork), good talent (its hard to find, and its absolutelly esential), Good DP work and artificial lighting (It is needed- even Dogma movies has it.), a Good script, and also, good directing (which implies good actor direction, great camerawork, good narrative flow and editing, etc.). There are of course other factors like good camera operator if you are not to handle your camerawork, good soundman and soundcrew, etc...

I think one, in order to direct something, needs to have a good team of people that can definetly work together. Note that many European directors stick with their actors. Its all a matter of trust and working relationship. Everyone is togheter to tell a story, so everyone should be in the same tone in order for things to work out. Building such a team takes time (and a good number of small warm-up productions...)

But what this means is that directing and filmmaking is a learning process, and the HVX is good and versatile enough for one to produce a film for the Big Screen, no doubt about it. It doesn't make sense ( seeing that talented directors won awards using sd prosumer cameras) for an independent director/producer to go for a 20 000 plus dollar machine that's marginally better (I'm talking the f350 here) and neglect the 10 000 or plus more he's going to need in order to have a professional production (and I'm being optimistic!).

In my view, and after much research, the HVX was my choice. Now I'll have to start producing those movies, and hopefully start putting the garbage out to make way for the good stuff! ( I hope some of my crappy comercials helped clear the number of the poor movies to below 10.. :) )
 
Dear Emanuel, Red camera it's supposed to ship at the end of year...but the problem is that this company it's new born! It does not have resellers, nothing. It has no story.
Think about Panasonic and problems to make numerous Hvx200 cameras, it's a famous company and has lots of problem.
If Red could provide the revolution, they sure will have some problems with all others companies tryin' to stop Red.
Think about Drake camera, or Kinetta...do you remember what's happened?
Ev'ry year we've heard that somethin' of incredible will change movie's industry...but it' not happened nothing.
I believe that a bunch of companies keep a check on the market, and we know what it means.
I'm a lot skeptical about Red, the camera is achievable, but make a thing in series, and sell to wordwide...mmm...this is pure Scifi.
Think also about Guerilla35...
If the price is so competitive and quality too probably will destroy the rental market, you know what it means? Jim Jannard will have some threatening call at the phone...and ya know...people don't want die.
Killin' people for this busisness it's ordinary thing, it happens evr'yday...
We know that a Red camera is achievable, but drillin' an hole in the Jim Jannard's head it's more easy than make a new camera.
Think about it!
 
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Danilo, you're being too dramatic ! SOny is going to announce a new camera at NAB. I went to a Sony seminar in Hong-Kong, and they developed recently a projector capable of 4K, and when doing the presentation they where asked: "Why a 4k projector?". And they talked about the Arri D20, and also RED. So RED is not invisible to them. If this so called Revolutionary camera comes, the other manufacturers aren't sleeping. The problem is recording. To record a 4k stream, you would need a super super computer, and it wouldn't be portable. So you would have to end up with the current capturing codecs. So you would either end up with HDCAM SR (Incredibly expensive but top quality), HDCAM and DVCPRO HD (which is what the HVX200 natively captures :) )

The RED can be the best and "affordable" (around 15k without lens is my guess), but the workflow would be incredibly expensive for someone to take full advantage of its capabilities..

But, then again, I would ratter have a Ferrari that had a chip limiting it to 230 km/h (But could do 250 km/h when the chip was removed) than a Subaru Impreza that can do 230 km/h at full spec (I know it can go faster, just to make sense on this analogy :) )

However, one should not forget that at the hands of a skilled driver, even the Subaru can beat a Ferrari, chipped or not... :)

EDIT- Danilo, have you seen the HVX bootcamp thread? Seems like the guys did a comparison shot between the Viper and the HVX with nice results! Now if we could see that footage...
 
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Some good points here and there. The Forbes indicator (as well, the Jannard film cameras passion) is a good one.

Wait and see...price(s), availability and also resolution vs. data storage ratio, not necessarily full range by now. Otherwise, there are other different ways like the (free access) JPEG codec, for instance -- future standard@digital_projection. And not only the uncompressed st(d)ream... Via HD-SDI -- other future standard (if not already present) too for sure.
 
SPZ said:
Danilo, have you seen the HVX bootcamp thread? Seems like the guys did a comparison shot between the Viper and the HVX with nice results! Now if we could see that footage...
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I've read about it, hope to see some footage too!
 
Emanuel said:
Some good points here and there. The Forbes indicator (as well, the Jannard film cameras passion) is a good one.

Wait and see...price(s), availability and also resolution vs. data storage ratio, not necessarily full range by now. Otherwise, there are other different ways like the (free access) JPEG codec, for instance -- future standard@digital_projection. And not only the uncompressed st(d)ream... Via HD-SDI -- other future standard (if not already present) too for sure.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're absolutelly right, Emanuel. But Lets not forget about the price and the harware required to push both these codecs and streams...

By the way, just converted my 1080p25 clip to a dvd with compressor, and the picture BLOWS THE DVX out of the water. Pure and simple. It looks like something shot by a much more expensive camera. Í'm just getting happier by the minute! Now If I could just get Quicktime to export the H264 clip with the correct aspect ratio, and not 4:3... :( This is giving me quite a headache! Anyone know how to export a correct aspect ratio H264 file from FInal Cut Pro?
 
SPZ said:
Yes, you're absolutelly right, Emanuel. But Lets not forget about the price and the harware required to push both these codecs and streams...

By the way, just converted my 1080p25 clip to a dvd with compressor, and the picture BLOWS THE DVX out of the water. Pure and simple. It looks like something shot by a much more expensive camera. Í'm just getting happier by the minute! Now If I could just get Quicktime to export the H264 clip with the correct aspect ratio, and not 4:3... :( This is giving me quite a headache! Anyone know how to export a correct aspect ratio H264 file from FInal Cut Pro?
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You're using the export via Quicktime conversion, right? Select MPEG-4, hit the option button next to it and adjust the image size. You can choose the right format for HD, 720 or 1080. For SD, do the math and fill in the numbers yourself.

Greets
 
OliverM said:
You're using the export via Quicktime conversion, right? Select MPEG-4, hit the option button next to it and adjust the image size. You can choose the right format for HD, 720 or 1080. For SD, do the math and fill in the numbers yourself.

Greets
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OliverM, thanks for the input. I tried clicking on the size option, and wrote 1440 v 1080, but it still came out stretched. I selected h264. I'll try mpeg 4 then.

I'll try to post first footage as soon as I take care of some hosting issues! I'll post some day and night exterior shots.
 
Danilo Del Tufo said:
Dear Emanuel, Red camera it's supposed to ship at the end of year...but the problem is that this company it's new born! It does not have resellers, nothing. It has no story.
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Search OAKLEY@google and it's possible to follow that native Jannard's company it is a successful company. It's also another good indicator to us. I give him my trust. It seems that he's doing his business with passione and this it is the first point that I appreciate to know. :thumbsup:
 
Emanuel said:
Search OAKLEY@google and it's possible to follow that native Jannard's company it is a successful company. It's also another good indicator to us. I give him my trust. It seems that he's doing his business with passione and this it is the first point that I appreciate to know. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

L'ho visto! Speriamo bene! :)
 
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