Confused about P2 vs. Firestore... need advice

That package only comes with 4 gig card, but I will purchase another to have two of them and shoot longer takes if needed.

That brings up another question. What happens to the files of a take that spans two cards? How do I properly import that into FCP and then how can I archive that to DVD-R? I would want to backup each card to a DVD-R, which means a take that spans two cards would be split between two DVD-Rs. Seems to me there would be a break in the action.

I have not seen a response to if there is a difference in picture quality between 24p (FS100) and 24p Native (P2). And is there a 1080 24p Native mode or just 720p?
 
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I think that the image quality is the same regaurdless of native or not. I also think that you can only do 24pN in 720.
 
flmmkr said:
That brings up another question. What happens to the files of a take that spans two cards? How do I properly import that into FCP and then how can I archive that to DVD-R? I would want to backup each card to a DVD-R, which means a take that spans two cards would be split between two DVD-Rs. Seems to me there would be a break in the action.
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I think the p2 creates a link so that the editing program notices the file spanning over both cards as the same .mxf file. I dont know how you properly import it, but the P2 technology can definetly handle that problem as far as I have read.
 
aelent said:
I have to be able to shoot for 30 to 60 minutes without stopping to offload.
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It shoots 40 mins of 720p with the two 8gig P2 cards. and if you have a p2 store you can shoot non stop.
 
pkendall said:
It shoots 40 mins of 720p with the two 8gig P2 cards. and if you have a p2 store you can shoot non stop.
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But I want to shoot 1080, which will greatly reduce the time I can capture to two 8GB P2 cards. Not to mention the fact I can get 100GB of storage in the FS-100 for $2000 vs. spending $2800 for only 16GB with the two 8GB P2's. And with the P2 Store you can't record directly to it, you have to stop and offload your P2 cards into it(if I am wrong about that, please correct me), which is what I am trying to avoid. Not to mention you are only getting 60GB with the P2 store. For $200 more I can get a 100GB FS-100 that that not only holds more, but will also allow me to capture directly to it.

Like I said earlier, I would really love to just use P2 cards, but they just aren't there for my purposes yet. I know they will get there and when they do, I will be first in line to buy them. For now, it's gotta be a solution like the FS-100 or the Cineporter.
 
the FS-100 doesn't sound that much sweeter than a p2 store.. only 40 more gigs? and $2k? if it was 300 gigs, then maybe.. plus you can't run around with it... one dude on this forum was shooting with the army and said that when they threw concusion grenades this camera never blacked out with the p2 cards, unlike other cameras going to tape, I hate to image what it does to a firewire cable... if something happens to that firewire cable, if it jiggles or whatever, you've corrupted the entire clip... i wouldn't go with anything that's not Panasonic right now... plus you don't get the instant thumbnails in playback mode..

plus you're still going to have to backup the data onto a larger harddrive anyways no matter what you buy..

i'm not sure what you're shooting, but 720p is HD and it takes less time do renders in post... and you can upconvert it to 1080i in final cut when your ready to deliver... I'd take advantage of the native mode of this camera...

no I don't work for panasonic :-)
 
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pkendall said:
no I don't work for panasonic :-)
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Haha, you sure?

pkendall said:
i wouldn't go with anything that's not Panasonic right now... plus you don't get the instant thumbnails in playback mode..
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Actually, Panasonic supports the FS-100 and even recommends it in their FAQ for the HVX200. They suggest it for situations like I am talking about where you need longer record times. I think they are even OEM partners. And the FS-100 captures the video as P2 MXF files, same as a P2 card, so you do get instant thumbnails in playback mode.

pkendall said:
the FS-100 doesn't sound that much sweeter than a p2 store.. only 40 more gigs? and $2k? if it was 300 gigs, then maybe.. plus you can't run around with it...
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The P2 Store is $1700 and the FS-100 is around $2000. The extra 40GB is definately worth the extra $300. Besides, comparing the FS-100 and the P2 Store is like comparing apples and oranges. The P2 Store is just for dumping footage from your P2 cards when they are full. You can't capture directly to the P2 Store unlike the FS-100. And that is the whole point. I need the FS-100 to be able to record for longer amounts of time than the current P2 cards will allow, without having to stop to change out P2 cards. This is direct from Panasonic's site:
The FS-100 from Focus Enhancements will give 90-100 minutes of high-definition content in 720p or 1080i modes. In DVCPRO50 it will record 200 minutes, and in DV or DVCPRO it will offer 400 minutes.
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And that is exactly what I personally need. And you can run around with it. It can mount to the camera and can be worn on a belt.

pkendall said:
one dude on this forum was shooting with the army and said that when they threw concusion grenades this camera never blacked out with the p2 cards, unlike other cameras going to tape, I hate to image what it does to a firewire cable...
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Commercial shoots can be crazy, but I've yet to have a concusion grenade lobbed at me. :)

pkendall said:
if something happens to that firewire cable, if it jiggles or whatever, you've corrupted the entire clip...
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You're safe on that end too. There is a 10 second buffer for situations like that so your clips aren't going to get corrupted.

And no, I don't work for Focus Enhancements. :)
 
I don't know whether to get two 4gb cards + P2 store or get the FS100 and forget about cards.

Cards/P2 store pros:
Record about 110 mins in 720 25pn when offloading to P2 store - cards are more portable - cards were how the camera was meant to be used. Rugged.

Cons:
Massive price in the UK (£520inc VAT for one 4gb card - £1,169.13inc VAT for an 8gb card) - low record times.

Firestore FS100 pros:
Record 90 minutes of DVCProHD 50p, and more for other formats - continuous. Edit on the firestore - may be no need for any file transfer in some situations.

Cons:
You have to carry around a hard drive - doesn't fit on the camera like a P2 card does. Firewire doesn't allow native recording which cuts down recording time and forces you to record a 50p stream which isn't really necessary and wastes a lot of space on the drive.

Choices, choices.... Can anyone help me make this decision?

21%2002%202006panasonic_fs-100_2.jpg
 
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If you can live with the fact that the memory prices are going to drop rapidly and you want to work ' now' with it, go ahead. You are going to lose pounds but you can work and make some. If you need a solution for long recording go wih the cineporter now. I do not like to have something on top above the lens, but in studio shoots the monitor is there, its almost the same.

1 Gig Sd card today cost 24 E, 4Gig x 24= 96E ---- the 4 gig P2 = 575 E
Someone is making money and knows you cant go anywhere else...

Hynix Semiconductor and Samsung Electronics both the biggest maker of memory chips (with Toshiba) projected a more than 25 percent and 20 percent fall in the price of flash memory during the 1st 3 months of this year. Hynix thinks the NAND chip prices would drop about 50 percent in 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4824628.stm
 
"Firewire doesn't allow native recording which cuts down recording time and forces you to record a 50p stream which isn't really necessary and wastes a lot of space on the drive. "

True, but they give you enough space so I don´t bother. Strip it within the editing application if you need too.

The P2 store is something that I would never buy. I think you beter go with a small 11" laptop, so you can use that for reading the script, viewing the clips, offloading the P2 cards with pcmcia slot, and for monitoring.
 
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I dont see I have any other choice but the Fs-100 to be honest.

Its going to be nerve wrecking to go to a shoot with like 1 hour 30 worth of recording time, but having said that...with instant review I can drop shots and go again.

also £1,169 for an 8gig P2 card ?? :(
 
booth, dont say that....having a box in my pocket connected by a firewire just sounds sketchy dont you think?

that 8gig card is expensive but combine that with a laptop and it might be a better LONG TERM solution than the FS100?

the trouble is, all of this is going to be outdated...the FS100 is only going to be useful until they make bigger cheaper P2 cards..Is the cineporter going to be the size of a P2 card? I.e could it go into the pcmca slot of a laptop for dumping?

in that case it might be worth getting a 8gig and a laptop spending a lot of time dumping to the laptop NOW but eventually upgrading to the cineporter...or indeed bigger P2 cards.
 
Hey this is cool...someone (who has the privilege to be a moderator) changed my Sig! Look at the funny misspeling thing. Childish I think.
 
adam powell said:
booth, dont say that....having a box in my pocket connected by a firewire just sounds sketchy dont you think?

that 8gig card is expensive but combine that with a laptop and it might be a better LONG TERM solution than the FS100?

the trouble is, all of this is going to be outdated...the FS100 is only going to be useful until they make bigger cheaper P2 cards..Is the cineporter going to be the size of a P2 card? I.e could it go into the pcmca slot of a laptop for dumping?

in that case it might be worth getting a 8gig and a laptop spending a lot of time dumping to the laptop NOW but eventually upgrading to the cineporter...or indeed bigger P2 cards.
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The cineporter is a HD that has a wire attached to a 'fake' P2 card - this goes in the P2 slot tricking the HVX200 into thinking it's got a 160gb P2 card inside it. So there's still a box hanging from the HVX, it just isn't connected via firewire.

The Firestore has an anti-shock buffer, so though it's connected via firewire it shouldn't be a problem unless the wire comes completely out - but why would it? Firewires in my experience don't just come out easily, they're quite stubborn. The people who are already using 40/80gb Firestores for DV/HDV don't appear to be complaining - or are they? Anyone know how well these are working?

I think it's going to be a while before we get 64gb cards (which would be better than Firestore) - even longer before we get 128gb. 16gb (32 mins of HD native recording) hasn't even been announced yet, so what's the estimate for 32gb?
 
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