A clue to how Canon gets it’s progressive mode? MAYBE!

Yes, but Barry's post above illustrates that the HD100 may not have had interlace issues, but it most likely took a resolution hit. Both are bad. The B&W look should be tailored in post production through levels, curves and contrast controls.
 
Let me chime in with a resounding... WHO CARES!?!? Whatever the Canon process is to get 24f... it works... whatever the Panny process is to give more rez... it works. Why are some people so intent on trying to "expose" these cheap HD cameras? The compromise in all the "pro-sumer" (terrible word) cameras is learning to work around the achilles heels, be it fast motion, noise, oversaturated colors, lens aberrations, etc. So, lets add, if you desaturate your image, dont add a red25 filter to the list of "no-nos" for the XLH.



ash =o)
 
a movie shot with a DVX100a got nominated for an Oscar and almost won just a few weeks ago.

HDV & DVCPROHD is now affordable........What more do people want?

*shakin' my head*
 
AshG said:
Let me chime in with a resounding... WHO CARES!?!? ash =o)
Click to expand...

Hmm...
Maybe you missed Michael's point.
He only reported this for the sake of understanding Canons 24F mode.
He owns an H1.
 
See, My neighbor Steve gets it.

I own the XLH1- I have invested over 10,000 dollars into it!

I could care less that the H1 can't work with the red ( 25 ) filter. Who gives a $#@... I knew this a week and half ago. If you go on my media server I do have very nice XLH1 B&W material with no filters.

I just posted the pic for those that may find this data from testing of the XLH1 useful in aiding those that care how the 24F mode works. I'm one of those that doesn't fully care- I'm curious- However it's no big deal..

Another thing- I don't think I have ever even posted if my memory serves me right up to this point about what makes the 24f mode work. I could care less. It works! If we find out, we find out- if not. I'm still going to like the look it gives.....

Pappas

...................The End!.....................



Stevet said:
Hmm...
Maybe you missed Michael's point.
He only reported this for the sake of understanding Canons 24F mode.
He owns an H1.
Click to expand...
 
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starway2001@mac.com said:
The B&W look should be tailored in post production through levels, curves and contrast controls.
Click to expand...

I think that's a matter of philosophy and technique. George Clooney didn't shoot color, if I'm not mistaken. Personally, I dig the idea of committing to B&W whatever the medium. I shot a 35mm short in B&W at college (1940's period piece) and while I do sometimes wonder what it might've looked like with color Vision stock, I'm very happy that I committed to a certain look and got exactly what I intended without any image adjustments in post.

I see your point starway but I think there are valid technical and philosophical reasons to shoot B&W
 
As far as I read because the 500T was faster and less grainy than the 5222.

I'm quoting what Mr. David Mullen wrote over at cinematography.com:

"They wanted to shoot mainly with zoom lenses, and yet keep sets mainly lit with overhead practicals, so they needed the speed of 500T."
 
Exactly, it's not a mandate, however lighting and contrast control decisions are different in B&W. You can on purpose introduce elements with certain colors that give off a certain tonal look within the frame etc. You can underexpose or overexpose elements that you can't in color for obvious reasons. This list can on and on for artistic/technical reasons. One reason studios force a color neg is B&W worries the distributors and and exhibitors. B&W is a curse in their eye's that will affect overall market gain. Shooting Color is a safe option that makes most parties feel at-least there is the option to go color if they want.



Hey, Ted Turner loves Black & White.................................... :-)

Pappas



Elton said:
I see your point starway but I think there are valid technical and philosophical reasons to shoot B&W
Click to expand...
 
Hello everyone!

Since I have the rare opportunity to own these two excellent HD tools at the same time, I can put them through all sorts of tests. I have black and white projects in the future so I wanted to see what my options are with these HD cameras. What I did not want was this to turn into a major debate. So the XLH1 can't work with red filters for B&W photography- No Big deal- I knew this a week and half ago. I have another six filters that will work. This test does not reflect badly on the XLH1 one bit, it just shows that it was taken beyond its designed parameters and does not reflect badly on the design that Canon put into the XLH1. It's no different if I tried to cut a tree down with a steak knife,- yeah it will cut into the tree and maybe take it down someday, however it goes beyond it's intended design. The XLH1 will do B&W internally, just don't use a red filter thats all this test shows. I have uploaded since owning the XLH1 nearly 100 clips for all of you to see out of my own pocket to get the highest bandwidth. This demonstrated the powerful tool that the H1 can be. I have done that very same thing for the JVC HD100. I own both, and each one of them are excellent tools, neither one is better than the other, just different. Since I posted the picture to maybe aid in the possible clues to the 24f formula, it has proven to be not constructive to this board and I feel that it has no need to be up anymore. It was misunderstood! So I have taken the image down, and hope that you understand the H1 24F mode works. How it works I have no clue. Canon has one of the biggest R&D budgets in the business. So they came up with one hell of a convincing formula. Canon must have done something unique, no one has been able to figure it out yet..... One other note- a lot of F900 users have gotten behind the XLH1, that didn't just happen for no reason. These people could care less to waist their time on tools that don't work. They have indeed given the XLH1 their valuable time... That speaks volumes alone about the quality of the Canon XLH1 image......


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
 
OK leave the bla bla and tell us if you have just one camera, what's your favourite filmmaking cam? The interlaced but higher rez Canon? Or the progressive but loooower rez JVC? C'mon answer us without the usual "buy & drive it!"
 
However 24F is achieved, it's simply not an "interlaced" image. They are progressive frames arrived at by some method Canon's considerable R&D budget seems to have helped achieve from an interlace CCD. One thing I have looked for repeatedly in my 24F footage are the tell-tale interlace artifacts that are nearly impossible to hide. You just can't find temporal displacement double images with 24F.
 
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