One noise thought after some Varicam/HVX 400 editing

gunleik

gunleik

Well-known member
Hi.

I'm currently onlining some shorts shot on Varicam and HDX-400 by the same DP and with the same lens.

the Vari was shot at 720 p25 and the 400 at 1080 psf25.

It's amasing to see the difference on these two cameras side by side and the Varicam is one loveable piece of equipment!. But my thought after this session is that the HVX-200 must be some amazing beast.

The 400 images are actually quite noisy, and colors are quite video'ish in comparison with the Vari.

But - and this is my very subjective opinion!!! - my impression is that the HVX pictures are much more comparable to the Varicam pictures than the 400, when shot by a good DP. And noise? I think the 400 looks worse, BUT: !!!

I haven't edited 200 images natively at full res yet, so this is just my impression from downloaded footage.

I think my desired cams at the moment are a Varicam or a 200 with a M2 adapter and mattebox.

Gunleik
 
I did a side-by-side with an HVX and a 400 with matched levels on a waveform monitor. The 400 was significantly cleaner.
 
I do not deny any of this.

All I say that I'm editing six shorts shot by the same DP under similar conditions, all with the same HD lens. 3 are shot on the 400, 3 on the varicam.

The 400 images are pretty noisy. I (subjectively) love the Vari images over the 400.

The Vari images are way cleaner than the 400.

The 200 images I have downloaded look much more like the Varicam images than the images I edit from the 400. (probably due to gamma adjustments - not lens or format -;)

That said. I guess that lightening for the 200 is much more demanding than lightening for the Varicam and side by side shooting under the same lightconditions on a 2/3 and a 1/3 HD camera (like 200 vs 400) should always give the 2/3" the upper hand.

But still, I am more impressed now of the 200 images I've seen, when comparing to the 400. Not implying that the 200 is a better camera. But saying that I'd rather have a Varicam, but if I can't affor one - I'd take a 200 and save the $$$ untill I can afford one.

(and I know that the Vari should have been able to shoot 1080 p25... But the 720 p25 images from the Varicam still blow away the images from the 400 @ 1080 p25)

And this is my TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE, but quite enthusiastic impression from my current gig. -;)

Gunleik
 
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I've now heard from a few people now that 'if you can't afford the rental of a Varicam (which we love) then BUY a HVX200'.

Amazing that you can get near the quality of a Varicam - as I think Varicam looks very film-like. I've shown directors who've shot 35mm features Varicam footage and they think it's 35mm. On being told it's actually 720p Varicam footage they're completely blown away. Our colorist recently gave Bruno Coppola a demo with Varicam footage and he thought it was 35mm. And this is someone who has vast knowledge of filmmaking.

Note: The Varicam footage was very well shot and had been graded on a Davinic2k. I suspect in less safe hands it might not look as good.
 
It's Panasonics "No variable speed" full size HD camera.
The HDX-400 is interlace only DVCPRO HD 1080/60i.
The HDX-400e is DVCPRO HD in both 1080/50i and 1080/25p.

The CCD is 1 millon pixels like in the Varicam, so a bit softer than Sony's comparable HVW-750p
 
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Depending on the scene, any decent director/dp could tell the difference between video and film, several tell tale signs in most situations. I use an HVX-200 and really like it but to say it is in the same ball park as a Varicam is silly. In certain conditions it may be close but not in general. To me that is like saying a Z1u is a Mini-CineAlta...

I personally love the Vari and use it on any job with the budget to rent one but many of my buddies in LA are telling me that MOST of their freelance shooting now is REQUIRING 1080i footage for HD work. Many people use the F900 over the HDX400, just more standard in Hollywood I guess. I really hope Panny has a 1080p Vari in the works, they really need something to be out this year. Maybe that is why the Vari price is rumored to be dropping 30%-50% in the next 2 months...



ash =o)
 
1. HDX 400 -;)
2. I don't say the HVX is on par with the Vari, but for the money, if I could "only" afford a 400, I'd rather buy a 200 and save the rest for the Varicam.

OK. Too enthustiastic, and didn't really like the 400. Agreed.

But still, my thoughts are: If you cannot afford a real high-end cam, go to the other extreme until you can.

wait fort that Viper, cinealta or Red to appear and within your budget.

the ones in-between aren't really that cool...

You really see the difference between Vari and 400.
And: You really see the differnce between 200 and Vari.
And: I admit to see a lot of differences between 200 and 400, but to me the difference between the 200 and the Vari is really worth the amount of cash you'll have to spend. Between 200 and 400... Not for me. Not today anyway. -;)

And again: This is just my very subjective 2c!

Gunleik
 
AshG said:
Depending on the scene, any decent director/dp could tell the difference between video and film, several tell tale signs in most situations. I use an HVX-200 and really like it but to say it is in the same ball park as a Varicam is silly. In certain conditions it may be close but not in general. To me that is like saying a Z1u is a Mini-CineAlta...
Click to expand...

totally agree..

do some more comparisons, especially wider shots in lower light and other more difficult to light scenes & you'll see there's a good reason for having a larger imaging device & top notch glass....
 
There's the rub... no matter how cheap sensors get, they are only as good as the glass that you put in front of them. High quality HD glass wont ever be cheap, in fact this is the one area that technology cannot drive the price down on, some of the better lenses have actually gone UP in price...


ash =o)
 
AshG said:
There's the rub... no matter how cheap sensors get, they are only as good as the glass that you put in front of them. High quality HD glass wont ever be cheap, in fact this is the one area that technology cannot drive the price down on, some of the better lenses have actually gone UP in price...


ash =o)
Click to expand...

exactly...

recently I did a 2 camera shoot with a Sony DSR-500 (full size 2/3inch shoulder mount DVCAM) and a PD150. When you do tighter close up shots with them (well as far as the PD150 fixed lense can zoom in anyway) there was very little difference between the 2 shots....

Then we had to wide shots on both cameras for a particular scene... The difference was almost night & day... We could barely use the PD150 shots. Probably could've got away with it normally but when comparing it the DSR-500, no chance... This is where the bigger chips & quality of glass comes in to play...

Whilst the HVX200 is brilliant in terms of value for money, portability etc not to mention it shoots beautiful images... don't expect it to replace bigger cameras....
 
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