XL-H1 w/XL2 16X Manual Lens Footage

Elton

Elton

Veteran
Hey everybody,

Here are a few clips Michael shot with the H1/manual lens combo down at the hoops court at Laguna Beach. He was "going for an extreme look" pushing the color, and I think he was trying for a "CSI Miami" kind of feel, but anyway, just a little desaturation in VLC (skin tones are nuclear) and the image has a nice pop. I think he was thrown of f a little by the default LCD EVF settings, but he was going for a really warm look...and boy is it warm. They all look like nuclear survivors but this stuff at least shows a different look from the camera.

www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton
 
It's hard for me to make a completely judgment on the quality of the 16x lens due to the extreme color, but from what I can tell it looks like its resolving quite well. I'm impressed. Maybe I'll buy one off ebay.

Anyone done any tests with the 3x that has some footage they're willing to post?
 
Try cc'ing or a desaturation in VLC. There are a few image controls that can play back the corrected clip in realtime with a fast Mac/PC. In VLC 0.8.4 and up it's under "extended controls".
 
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Looks great (other than skin tone issue). I really hate to say it but I have been more impressed with the XL H1 footage that I have seen compared to the HVX200 footage.
 
Maybe this indie Michael isn't a surprise, at all. While other ones are talking, he answers with footage work.:nads:
Thus, he's so much helpful and all this community must be grateful. What will these sub-forums be without his contribution?... :dankk2:
BTW, I was@HVX_side during so many months...and now there is Michael Pappas' footage that is scoring. Any doubt?
 
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starway2001, did you work with a F900 or F750, right? And now you purchased a XL-H1, so what are the differences that you are finding between them regarding their results?
 
#include said:
Dose anybody know if Canon has plans to release a manual HD or wide angel lens?
Click to expand...

No word yet, but I have hope for the coming months. Maybe there will be an announcement at NAB, but just as likely not because that's where they showcase "broadcast" products like their high-end lenses.

My fear is that a manual lens like the current 16x will be so much more expensive being blessed with the "HD" moniker. At the very least, probably twice as expensive as the $1,299 16x. I think the current crop of Century Optics adapters and the Canon 1/3" 16x lens are more than up to the job.

Any predictions on the cost of "HD" 1/3" lenses from Canon?
 
Emanuel said:
starway2001, did you work with a F900 or F750, right? And now you purchased a XL-H1, so what are the differences that you are finding between them regarding their results?
Click to expand...

I've only worked with the F900 twice. The most extensive use of it was my last shoot for "Shadow Falls" last fall. I really enjoyed working with the camera. It was easier than I anticipated and I think the project looks great. But it's big, cumbersome and HEAVY.

While I haven't really used the H1 extensively yet, I do like to think of it as an F900-Jr. It's close enough that and inexpensive enough that I can justify owning it.

I'll probably have a better opinion of the H1 after my shoot this April.
 
I'm going to guess that because of the difficulties of building a wide-angle lens for HD it's going to be significantly more expensive.

I'm going to say the 3x HD lens will be $4999

The 16x manual HD lens will be $8999
 
It is really hard to guess what the lenses will cost but I think they will come in at reasonable numbers compared to the cost of the camera. Figure they will cost about 1.5 times what the standard def lens cost. Of course they might come out with different lenses than the 3x and 16x so there might not be a direct comparison. From what I understand they are designing lenses for the XDCAM HD system as well and those cameras with glass are only about 2x more expensive than the XLH1 so Canon will be limited in the market if they try and sell lenses which cost too much. I don't think too many people ran out to buy the better Fujinon HD lens for the JVC due to its cost compared to the cost of the camera.
Also the more HD lenses they make the cheaper the process should become since the solutions to most of the problems will be incorporated into future products. What is always expensive is retooling for a new specification or product.
 
Daniel,

You bring up some interesting points. I hadn't factored in Canon's direct competition with the XDCAM and the cost ratios with their lenses.

Also, it should be noted that Canon is primarily a lens maker. And they produce a lot of volume. It's very possible they could make the optional H1 lenses as a loss-lead proposition for them. In fact, many insiders believe the H1 is probably losing money for Canon because they're (1) determined to compete with major camera manufacturer's like Panny and Sony; and (2) they're hoping to increase volume over time by simultaneously marketing the camera to small market television stations (think Idaho) who need to comply with the HDTV conversion in '08.
 
Point of clarification: there is no HDTV conversion in '08 or any other time. There's a scheduled conversion to DTV, but not HDTV. HDTV is an option, obviously, as it's a subset of the ATSC's DTV definition, but neither Congress nor the FCC have ever mandated a switch to HDTV. Stations just have to broadcast digitally, but they can broadcast standard-def digitally and be in full compliance.

There are 18 approved broadcast standards in the ATSC DTV table; 12 are EDTV or SDTV, 6 are HDTV, but they all fall under the umbrella of DTV.
 
Thanks for the clarification, Barry, nevertheless, I think Starway may be on to something.

Canon may just be trying to gain a foothold in the broadcast camera market by going the everyman "Idaho" route. The H1 is the only sub $10K camera that offers true studio capabilities. Think of all the local cable channels that might see the benefit of this camera. It's almost like Canon is singlehandedly creating a true entry-level HD studio camera market for very small TV stations and markets.

I also imagine tons of college TV facilities/programs will gobble up these cameras.
 
I think that's exactly who Canon had in mind with the H1. No doubt. The special features of the H1 make it ideally suited for television studio work.

I was just pointing out there's no mandate. Obviously there will come a time when stations will convert in order to remain competitive. But it will be a commerce issue, not a government mandate.
 
You're definitley correct about the mandate issue. Commerce will certainly decide what the broadcasters, big or small, actually do with their bandwidth. Sadly, multicasting SD along with lower quality HD will be the norm, IHMO.

As for Canon's markets...this is what I think they took aim at, in order of priority:

1) Small market Television
2) Wedding/Event video
3) HD EFP/Filmmaking

One other wrinkle I forgot to mention was the addition of Larry Thorpe (formerly big wig of Sony broadcast) joining Canon. I think it's no coincidence that the H1 is favorably compared to HDCAM. Mr. Thorpe may have had something to do with the development of the XL-H1.

Here's a snippet from a press release in Feb. '04

""We are very excited about Larry's appointment," said Toru Yamasaki, director and general manager, broadcast and communications division at Canon U.S.A., Inc. "As a well respected leader in the broadcast and film industry, Larry brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to Canon's already successful broadcast lens business."

Thorpe is a renowned expert in the field of video acquisition, and is a leader of the HDTV movement in the U.S. His impressive list of accomplishments includes pioneering HDTV market development in the U.S. Thorpe also holds ten patents in the field of broadcast development."
 
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I didn't realize Larry Thorpe moved over to Canon. That puts a lot of Canon's H1 strategy into perspective.

Canon would've released an HDV XL camera regardless. But it might not've had the other features we're realishing right now. [/speculation]
 
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