Z280 price just lowered
- Thread starter jc01108
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cyvideo
Well-known member
Maybe a semi shoulder mount version like its earlier brothers in the EX range. Z280 body form is a bit like the early EX1. Then came the EX3 then the PMW-300 with their 'proper' side mount viewfinders and interchangeable lenses. Maybe a PXW-Z300 is in the wind?? I think in the broadcast arena there could be a market for a cheaper 1/2" 3 chipper for news work. Most of the new 2/3" ENG cams are starting to get up in price somewhat.
Chris Young
Chris Young
Bassman2003
Well-known member
I am only guessing but it would seem the pricing for the Panasonic CX350 pretty much tipped the boat over on Sony & Canon. Each went for a fairly high price point for the privilege of 4k in this size of camera and now they are left up there hanging. I have not used the camera which is probably nice but it is tough to pay more than ~$5,000 for this type of camera these days imho. As DLD is always pointing out, smart phones are taking over everything, even peoples' minds. We are all starting to see how in the not so distant future, the smart phones will be considered event cameras...
Doug Jensen
Well-known member
I wouldn't read too much into the discount. This is the time of year that Sony always runs their promotions. Their fiscal year ends in March and they like to use this quarter to pick up a few more sales before the books are closed.
The smartphones are already "event cameras" where professional quality isn't necessary or cost prohibitive. The key here is that the amateur footage is getting better and better, so there's a natural replacement process at work as well. Joseph Schumpeter called it "creative destruction". Milk deliverymen, switchboard operators and VCR repairmen say hello.
PS. Sony is running a major trade-in program too. Is this purely because it's the end of the fiscal year in Japan - January-March is the last quarter - or because there's a lot of inventory piling up and CP+ is coming up in February? Or is it because the World Mobile Congress is in March and the new generation of smartphones will have high resolution sensors and 8K video?
I reckon it's all of the above.
Doug Jensen
Well-known member
Have you actually used a Z280?
I own an FS7 and an F55 and the camera that gets used most is my Z280. It is an FS7m2 with smaller sensors and a f/1.9 17x lens. No shallow DoF, of course, but the picture quality and flexibility of that camera are amazing. You'll probably think this is BS but I've already made 2.5x what the camera cost just from stock footage alone, and those clips would have been much harder to get (or impossible) with my other cameras. Sure, the Z280 is not everyone's cup of tea but your description of the camera does not do it justice.
NorBro
Well-known member
No description there. Just my opinion that I think its image quality is mediocre and that the company is asking too much money for it.
I could also say ARRI is asking too much money for the Mini. Or that Ferraris are too expensive. Doesn't mean anything.
To you, the camera can be worth $7K or $700K, not really my concern.
I could also say ARRI is asking too much money for the Mini. Or that Ferraris are too expensive. Doesn't mean anything.
To you, the camera can be worth $7K or $700K, not really my concern.
Doug Jensen
Well-known member
Well, if you find that kind of random observations and grenade throwing into the forum entertaining, more power to you.
I'm not retired. I work for a living and expect the tools I buy to do the job I bought them for and to give me good ROI. The Z280 delivers. That is from first-hand experience and not just some snarky remark.
Whether you find certain cameras or cars overpriced is not my concern.
NorBro
Well-known member
It's not the first time I said it; I say it a few times a month.
And apparently it does concern you and since you feel obligated to take time out of your day to quote me and protect a product you're associated with would you also like to hear what I think about your camera courses? Or your stock footage advice?
One can form an opinion about anything in life.
In this case, it may be by operating the camera, or by spending countless hours editing its footage, or by watching 1 million videos and analyzing its quality, or by simply having disdain for the company (I don't). All opinions from different perspectives.
I wasn't looking for an argument. If you get to say it delivers then I also get to say it doesn't. And we can coexist.
And apparently it does concern you and since you feel obligated to take time out of your day to quote me and protect a product you're associated with would you also like to hear what I think about your camera courses? Or your stock footage advice?
One can form an opinion about anything in life.
In this case, it may be by operating the camera, or by spending countless hours editing its footage, or by watching 1 million videos and analyzing its quality, or by simply having disdain for the company (I don't). All opinions from different perspectives.
I wasn't looking for an argument. If you get to say it delivers then I also get to say it doesn't. And we can coexist.
You didn’t answer if you had actually used the Z280. And I think it is helpful to know when someone has a burr under their saddle. State your case well but no need to troll the members.
NorBro
Well-known member
Are you new here or just bored?
I didn't answer the question because it's an unprovable, pointless inquiry that wouldn't change anything.
Use your brain and philosophically process what's being asked. You would never know if I really used it or did not use it. (And, yes; I used it along with the XF705.)
"I used the camera." Now what?
Does that alter anyone's feelings? Now that you "know" - based on what I've told you on a forum - is my opinion in thinking their asking price is too high more valid?
Trolling? Over 11 years, there have been a countless number of cameras that I said I think (in my opinion) are too expensive.
Why are people getting so upset? Post #9 is a very honest assessment of mine.
I think the camera is super useful for certain productions but I think its image quality is mediocre and they are asking too much money for it. And there is competition. That is literally all I said. There are five B&H reviews that share similar thoughts.
What is the problem? It's not like I said they are useless cameras.
I cannot be the only person whom thinks $7000 was asking too much money. [Apparently not if B&H really did pull it from their display because of low sales (as mentioned on the last page).]
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So NorBro, have you used this camera? I am always interested in seeing what people produce with it. There appear to be few samples of work done with it that are posted anywhere. I have seen Doug's work that he has posted and it looks great! I have used an EX1r for many years and continue to use it for certain types of event work that I do, but am looking for a replacement. I also use other cameras with larger sensors and lenses which are great for interviews and more controllable situations, though I have used them for run and gun work as well, but the z280 as a one piece camera with so many professional specs seems to be in a pretty unique category.
NorBro
Well-known member
If you're genuinely interested then here it goes...
Personally, I have only used these types of cameras for high school/college sports and conferences that required slow zooms during presentations as speakers walked around on the stage. [Technically, I could have used interchangeable systems with still zoom lenses and reframe during the live cuts that displayed on the panels, but it's not very practical and having the ability to slowly push in and out is a major reason these cameras are used (as we know).]
This particular model - the Z280 - was on our/my list last summer for exactly that type of event. People talking on a stage, indoors.
A constant f/1.9 zoom lens is unheard of in these kind of systems (without it being a separate and more expensive purchase), and the thought of that functionality along with the low-light capabilities was very exciting, even with the 1/2" sensor.
However, ultimately I decided the final picture quality improvement was not worth the cost over existing systems. Exactly what started this.
I decided to move forward with Canon's XA55, which was released just weeks before. The 1" sensor and almost flawless face-tracking DPAF were my own biased selling points. Sure, on paper, the XA55 could never compete with the higher data rates of the Sony, the better piece of glass, and more DR (which wasn't necessary indoors as a LOG option wasn't planned on being used or even available on the Canon for that matter).
But how many people do you think would have noticed the difference in image quality?
___
[This is not really relevant (but part of the story): So with this particular allocation of resources, it provided me the opportunity to have three more extra units (although in reality it was overkill but you learn), and I also was able to upgrade the sets/vantage points that were provided for the videographers. I felt like the traditional scaffolding platforms that were being offered transferred too much foot motion into the picture. (Some people are more aware of their body movements when operating a camera than others.)]
___
As professionals, IQ - even perceived IQ - is so important to us. IMO, this is a major reason we purchase cameras.
The combined features of the Z280, on paper, are excellent. Obviously. But as I'm sitting there and testing this camera (and others, even the Blackmagic URSA Broadcast which wasn't fun), I am asking myself - and it's not the first time I am having these revelations - why does this camera cost $7000?
What am I really paying for?
Because I really don't think it's the image quality that's coming out from these 1/2" chips. (Shooting outdoors helps every camera.)
Am I paying that much more for the f/1.9 lens? The SDIs? 10-bit? The Sony name? ND. Definitely 4K/60p. I guess their full package.
___
Image quality - as we all say over and over again - is subjective. And that's why we are all allowed to have opinions. People argue about cameras every day. Colors, sharpness, specs, RAW.
Even which state is the best one to live in.
My comment was a simple opinion about the camera's cost in relation to the images it produces and what I personally think of them. Just me.
I often see a lot of people who usually turn out to be a bit older (or those who down-vote because they would rather not engage) have a difficult time understanding that the world is changing. I get it. I know similar spec'd shoulder cameras like this were $40K-$50K-$60K 10-15-20 years ago, but we are living in a different world and advancing at unprecedented speeds.
How many DO think it's worth $7000? Speak up.
This isn't a me hating the Sony Z280 thing; it's a me thinking it's not worth its asking price. That and only that, as I have said only that four times now.
So my thoughts will not change on the matter; I don't think the Z280 is worth $7000/$6450. And I don't think the Canon XF705 is worth $7000. IMO.
On the flip side of that, I think the Panasonic CX350 is a wonderful offering at $3700. I wouldn't purchase it, but it's a great value.
This is what forums are for. We discuss. We disagree.
Personally, I have only used these types of cameras for high school/college sports and conferences that required slow zooms during presentations as speakers walked around on the stage. [Technically, I could have used interchangeable systems with still zoom lenses and reframe during the live cuts that displayed on the panels, but it's not very practical and having the ability to slowly push in and out is a major reason these cameras are used (as we know).]
This particular model - the Z280 - was on our/my list last summer for exactly that type of event. People talking on a stage, indoors.
A constant f/1.9 zoom lens is unheard of in these kind of systems (without it being a separate and more expensive purchase), and the thought of that functionality along with the low-light capabilities was very exciting, even with the 1/2" sensor.
However, ultimately I decided the final picture quality improvement was not worth the cost over existing systems. Exactly what started this.
I decided to move forward with Canon's XA55, which was released just weeks before. The 1" sensor and almost flawless face-tracking DPAF were my own biased selling points. Sure, on paper, the XA55 could never compete with the higher data rates of the Sony, the better piece of glass, and more DR (which wasn't necessary indoors as a LOG option wasn't planned on being used or even available on the Canon for that matter).
But how many people do you think would have noticed the difference in image quality?
___
[This is not really relevant (but part of the story): So with this particular allocation of resources, it provided me the opportunity to have three more extra units (although in reality it was overkill but you learn), and I also was able to upgrade the sets/vantage points that were provided for the videographers. I felt like the traditional scaffolding platforms that were being offered transferred too much foot motion into the picture. (Some people are more aware of their body movements when operating a camera than others.)]
___
As professionals, IQ - even perceived IQ - is so important to us. IMO, this is a major reason we purchase cameras.
The combined features of the Z280, on paper, are excellent. Obviously. But as I'm sitting there and testing this camera (and others, even the Blackmagic URSA Broadcast which wasn't fun), I am asking myself - and it's not the first time I am having these revelations - why does this camera cost $7000?
What am I really paying for?
Because I really don't think it's the image quality that's coming out from these 1/2" chips. (Shooting outdoors helps every camera.)
Am I paying that much more for the f/1.9 lens? The SDIs? 10-bit? The Sony name? ND. Definitely 4K/60p. I guess their full package.
___
Image quality - as we all say over and over again - is subjective. And that's why we are all allowed to have opinions. People argue about cameras every day. Colors, sharpness, specs, RAW.
Even which state is the best one to live in.
My comment was a simple opinion about the camera's cost in relation to the images it produces and what I personally think of them. Just me.
I often see a lot of people who usually turn out to be a bit older (or those who down-vote because they would rather not engage) have a difficult time understanding that the world is changing. I get it. I know similar spec'd shoulder cameras like this were $40K-$50K-$60K 10-15-20 years ago, but we are living in a different world and advancing at unprecedented speeds.
How many DO think it's worth $7000? Speak up.
This isn't a me hating the Sony Z280 thing; it's a me thinking it's not worth its asking price. That and only that, as I have said only that four times now.
So my thoughts will not change on the matter; I don't think the Z280 is worth $7000/$6450. And I don't think the Canon XF705 is worth $7000. IMO.
On the flip side of that, I think the Panasonic CX350 is a wonderful offering at $3700. I wouldn't purchase it, but it's a great value.
This is what forums are for. We discuss. We disagree.
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nutmegger
Active member
Last summer when I was looking to buy a 4K camcorder I evaluated the Z280, XF705, and CX350. I priced out all three cameras with the accessories I would need. The Z280 came out to be around $8,800 with two 128GB SxS memory cards, SxS card reader, and a larger second battery. The XF705 came out to be around $7,600 with two 128GB V60 SDXC memory cards and a larger second battery. I chose the the CX350 and paid around $4,500 with two 128GB V90 SDXC memory cards and a larger second battery. The CX350 was the best value for the money. However, the CX350 does have its flaws and issues. To tell you the truth, I would have bought the Canon XF705 if the camera was priced under $5K.
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NorBro
Well-known member
I'm sure many others would have as well for under $5K.
How's the CX350 for you?
___
I'm doing the same thing again this summer and interested in checking out this one...just started shipping:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1438286-REG/jvc_gy_hc500_connected_cam_4k_professional.html
Captures ProRes...never seen that before in cameras like these (but could have missed one over the years).
How's the CX350 for you?
___
I'm doing the same thing again this summer and interested in checking out this one...just started shipping:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1438286-REG/jvc_gy_hc500_connected_cam_4k_professional.html
Captures ProRes...never seen that before in cameras like these (but could have missed one over the years).
nutmegger
Active member
here are my issues with the CX350.
1) Auto Focus: Auto focus is slow at times and inconsistent. I normally have the camera set to manual focus. When I use the "Push Auto" function button, the camera often remains in the auto focus mode for 4-5 seconds after releasing the button. On the UX90, the camera immediately returns to manual focus when releasing the Push Auto button.
2) Focus Assist: Currently Focus Assist gives you the choice of enlarged display or peaking. I would like to see a menu choice having both enlarged display and peaking enabled by the Focus Assist button. I currently have Focus Assist set for enlargement and button 4 A. Iris Level mapped for peaking.
3) Wave Form Monitor: The WFM is my preferred choice for setting exposure. It is too small to be useful as currently displayed. Hopefully, the WFM can be enlarged in a future firmware update.
4) Zebras: Has anyone noticed when Zebras is enabled there is no icon displayed on the LCD to indicate Zebras is turned on? Please add an icon to indicate Zebras is enabled.
5) LCD Screen: This cannot be fixed via firmware. The 3.2" LCD screen is too small for this camera. The LCD screen size used on the UX90 would have been a more appropriate size. Occasionally, when doing an interview I use my Ninja Blade as an external monitor for framing, manual focus, and determining depth of field.
There have been numerous postings about CX350 owners have issues with the camera's LANC remote controller. I bought the Libec ZFC-L remote controller and so far have not experienced any problems with the controller. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1344164-REG/libec_zfc_l_zoom_focus_control_for.html
At the 2019 NAB NY expo I mentioned my issues to a Panasonic product guy from Japan and he said he would forward my issues to the Panasonic engineering team. Have not heard back if anything is being done. Hopefully, a firmware update will be coming soon to address the issues/problems many CX350 have posted.
Regarding the JVC camera, I looked at the JVC HC500 model when I was at the B&H store yesterday. To me, the only advantage the JVC camera has over the CX350 being a FCPX user is the JVC can record ProRes internally.
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