State of handheld gimbals in 2022

morgan_moore said:
In fact ill link this private at this point the edit is not really started.

we see..
ronin
movi
handheld
and
50p over 25

I think my handheld has the most 'humanity'

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/676667638

|If we shot again next year.. im still not sure of the tools.

What we do see is that a tripod would probably have killed all of these shots!

I did use a tripod 70-200 for other chapters of the vid.

S
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I don't think this is a public-facing link, Sam. I'm coming to a dead URL. can you create a shareable link in vimeo?

but I agree that handheld is often used for a verite style precisely for the reason you describe. a lot of what I shoot desires elegance/stateliness more than humanity. just coincidence, really. personally, I think handheld is overused and what I try to achieve with a gimbal (with mixed results) is just anything you'd want to do on a dolly or jib
 
morgan_moore said:
its https://vimeo.com/676667638/1e87f930a3

edit - oddly the shot at 0.31 beer pull shows an accurate move that a handheld gimble would not really do. Some may not see this shot as accurate, or well composed or operated... but I do!
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Why couldn't you do this shot on a handheld gimbal? what makes this an "accurate" move (i.e. how are you defining accurate). It seems like a fairly simple slide left...there's a little headroom adjustment but it doesn't seem integral to the information in the shot?
 
here's a wedding I shot last summer on the ronin-s all the way through

2:21 - 3:14 have a lot of medium shot/CU panning to reframe with people like we're talking about

3:32 - 3:43 have a lot of slide-style detail shots of objects


doesn't seem to want to play on dvxuser...here's the link: https://vimeo.com/654237760
 
CharlesPapert said:
Why couldn't you do this shot on a handheld gimbal? what makes this an "accurate" move (i.e. how are you defining accurate). It seems like a fairly simple slide left...there's a little headroom adjustment but it doesn't seem integral to the information in the shot?
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be clear im not suggesting it is an award winning shot :)

it is accurate in that as she moves camera left I accelerate and decellerate with her to keep her at pposition "60% right" across the frame. I think Im doing a mix of pan and slide to do this.. what Im doing is being human, we stop together. because as a human I understand how to deliver a beer, a computer wont understand that. As a human we all do a bunch of stuff that is amazing just to avoid collapsing in a heap on the floor , let alone mimic the moves of another human.

I think with a gimbal (and these gimbal are not set by me but 'can I have a go' gimbals Ive played with for 5 min) that the whole thing works about 5-10 frames late.. which actually really shows. I would have set off late and then overpanned.

Maybe the setting are crucial.. My movi I tend to have in 'whip' mode just to make it feel like it is not sleeping in a pool of honey. I also found the movi unusable (for humans) until 'whip' mode was released.

Im gonna watch abes now.
 
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Abe there is much prettiness there.

What I particularly note is a bunch of roses at 3,38.

You are managing to move past the subject and back pan to keep it correctly framed.

This is not something I feel I can do on any gimbal ive tried.

It is of course a bunch of roses and they didnt move and we didnt want to film them at the exact time that they were moving and you could have five goes or practices.

Admiteddly the shot is .5s long in slow mo so only .25s of actual time, maybe this is a lucky .25 of a second or you have tuned the device and/or yourself to work it in a way that I cannot?
 
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morgan_moore said:
Abe there is much prettiness there.

What I particularly note is a bunch of roses at 3,38.

You are managing to move past the subject and back pan to keep it correctly framed.

This is not something I feel I can do on any gimbal ive tried.

It is of course a bunch of roses and they didnt move and we didnt want to film them at the exact time that they were moving and you could have five goes or practices.

Admiteddly the shot is .5s long in slow mo so only .25s of actual time, maybe this is a lucky .25 of a second or you have tuned the device and/or yourself to work it in a way that I cannot?
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this is 120fps into 24fps, so it's actually 20% slow-motion... but that just helps reduce my handheld wavering, it doesn't help me pan to reframe. and I had a very long stretch of continuous shot I could have used here

the real secret is that I cut in while the move is already happening. I start the move with the joystick and get the camera going at a steady pace and then start walking. and yes, as you said, since it's repeatable I can do it again with a different speed of pan and get my pan speed and walking speed to line up correctly.

changing directions during a pan or initiating a pan naturally is what I find much more challenging with a gimbal. (rather than cutting in while you're already panning.) it's not totally impossible, but I think there's a loud and clear advantage to working with a steadicam for that

EDIT: I think the joystick on the ronin-s is really nice. the joystick on the weebill-s, for example, is total shite by comparison. you can also use the joystick on the ronin-s at the same time as you can turn the handle to pan: 2 methods of panning available in conjunction. the weebill-s can only use one or the other. I don't have much gimbal experience outside these units, but I've used a ronin-m without any joystick and it was absolute murder trying to frame my shots precisely

there are a couple more shots similar to the roses from 2:09-2:15. same technical approach
 
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I think you could do such tracking using a joystick or remote wheels operator, etc, but I don't think you'll ever get the reaction speed you have there. I mean, if you can anticipate her movement I think you could stick on her pretty similarly
 
I was thinking that 'rose' is a joystick move.

start the pan with the stick and then move your body to keep the subject correctly positioned. Bodies learn to match thier speed to anything.. wonderful!

I guess you have the joystick settings way back from the fools whove joysticks Ive borrowed.

--

In terms of ''pour' with a gimbla.. yes if you can learn to be 5-10 frames ahead of the action it might be possible (and is eminently possible wheels which are not a 'handheld' gimbal) but all that anticipation is more stressing that just putting the cam on the sholder and following the action.
 
the rose may have been a pure joystick move, I can't remember... it might have been panned only by joystick while I walked in a straight line without rotating the unit. not sure...

joystick settings way back? like high deadband and smoothness, low maximum speed? yes, something like that. helps me do the feathering and slight adjustments with the joystick while I do fast movement and tracking by rotating the handle itself. There are also 3 modes you can dial in and toggle between on ronin-s. So I can set up the joystick to do faster moves when I'm on a wide-angle than a normal/telephoto

the anticipation might be worth stressing if you want a gimbal look instead of a handheld look. not sure that you do in this case, though. also, I don't think it's stressful, I think it's fun. just challenging and with its share of frustration
 
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I gotcha now Sam, I wasn't clear on "accuracy" but it makes sense now I see you are referring to response time and following the action.

Regarding remote operation, I believe my Inertia Wheels will work with the RS2 handheld gimbal but I haven't tried it yet.

Thinking about joysticks and stabilizers, thought you guys would be entertained by this scribble I found in one of my old notebooks. I swear this is not faked! If you can't read my scribble:

" 11/29/84 IDEA for improved Steadicam: mount servo motors on gimbal; left hand now operates JOYSTICK mounted near right hand. Operator does not touch camera pole at all - eliminates yaw, pitch, roll etc."

steadicamservo84.jpg
 

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CharlesPapert said:
Regarding remote operation, I believe my Inertia Wheels will work with the RS2 handheld gimbal but I haven't tried it yet
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To me operating a RS2 with $6k of wheeels is not part of ''State of handheld gimbals in 2022'

Maybe im wrong.

Im happy with my movi.2nd operator, mimic, 4 flycases of stuff setup for doing an ad/fiction.

Having an rs2 added to that heap could be great as you could fly into a fridge or through a small hole etc. But its still a 4 flight case job with a second body.

What im not happy to do is solo op a rs2 for a quick corporate in a pub/dog grooming/pizza/rock concert type gig because I dont think it has 'the response' which even a Merlin does.

Although I can learn from Abe as hes doing some good tricks :)
 
A further thought on following the action.. is that if your action is not a face but something else.. hands, a cake,a glassblowers glass blowing thing.

You will be in X marks the spot mode focus wise.

So your thing moves, and the camera is late so the thing leaves X and our super AI camera focusses on the bush behind.

And while I like a sharp bush as much as the next man..
 
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