Studio layout advice requested

F

firehawk

Veteran
Getting close to it finally happening. Looking for advice before I hand ideas over to architect
I couldn't get the pic to post so I shrunk it and changed to .jpg but still won't post

newest design, split idea with smaller & larger studio option
https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/off-t...io-layout-advice-requested/page16#post5689265

design
50' W X 85' L no side extension, smaller studio
https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/off-to...quested/page15

new alternate design (50' wide, open floorplan)
https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/off-to...quested/page11

Newest design (bigger 55' wide version)
https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/off-to...equested/page6

old link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3dvgd8tv2...lored.jpg?dl=0

older link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9flart1hzs..._5638.JPG?dl=0

older-er link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kn1kc9jgy...t%20C.jpg?dl=0

older-est link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7n8qmmpxi...t%20s.jpg?dl=0

Plan is to use a well insulated prefab metal building and build part of it out inside. Ceiling height 16 feet.

It's modest in size due to budget so I can do it. But the structure is large enough to possibly expand in the future.

Main things I'm trying to accomplish:
Have a green screen
Have a white cyc
Make gear storage & loading easier
Have meeting space for clients
Have stand up audio VO booth
Secure parking for van

Among concerns are the green screen / white cyc. Big enough? Deep enough? Problematic having them side by side?
I'd love a ~50X50 shooting space but I don't see how to do that now and don't actually need it. A smaller space can do most of what I need now. If I need more depth I'm hoping to shoot across diagonal to gain more distance.

Appreciate any advice. I don't want to make a critical mistake
 
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Where is your office? Your intern's office? Editing room?

How much do you expect it all to cost? I'm thinking about building a studio as well.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Where is your office? Your intern's office? Editing room?

How much do you expect it all to cost? I'm thinking about building a studio as well.
Click to expand...
The room at the bottom will have several workstations for video editing, 3d work and dubs/transfers. It dual purposes as a work area and also for meeting with clients. So if 2 or 3 people are posting at the same time they'd have to work with headphones. Not ideal but the above layout minimizes number of walls and very little ceiling that has to be built anywhere as I plan on just using the insulated top of the building for the "ceiling" in most spaces. I placed a few random chairs and objects for reference to visualize space.

There is an additional room upstairs where I would have another computer station that will be "messy" so I can keep paperwork clear of all the workstations downstairs that people will see. Originally I had a separate additional small edit room but I scratched it.

The metal buildings vary around $40k for one that size but you have to have the land and pad and assemble and then build it in. Lot of work but all the existing metal buildings I've found need so much work I've found some land and plan on going new instead.
I'm working on the cost for the building construction now. The studio part is the un-normal part where I'm trying to determine light fixtures, load weights, wall and floor materials, electric load etc. That stuff is unique to our field and you can't just ask an architect.

Still open for ideas for improvement. At this point it all can still change if needed, other than it will be a rectangular box no wider than 50'
 
My first concern is with a metal building v masonry. My experience is that metal buildings can be noisy, from wind & rain outside, to general creakiness, to reflective sound off surfaces. This can be pretty bad for audio.

After that, I question the need for dual standing cycs in green and white. I suggest building a three-sided white cyc all the way around. When you want green you can unfurl curtains on three sides, and perhaps build some removable cove pieces for the bottom & corners to cover the white ones. You'll need to endlessly repaint the floor anyway. If you keep both green and white cycs they will constantly bleed over onto each other, limit your working space, and your crews will keep stepping on the other color painted floors to get where they need to go so they'll need to be repainted anyway. You can use a manual winching system to rollup and store your gree curtains in the grid, but you should make coffin boxes they'll store in to keep the dust away as well as keep them reflecting colors onto your set when not in use. Paint the coffins black, along with the ceiling.

Your garage space will quickly become set flat storage along with the shop space to build stuff for sets. Very quickly that entire space can become needed and there won't be room for the van, so be aware and have a backup plan for the vehicle overnight.

Not a great idea to place a sound booth near a bathroom with it's piping, plus it's near the noisy set and there's no connecting space where someone could plug through as a control/mixing room. I suggest moving this to the bottom right corner near those desks. And that office area needs to be separated by some sort of wall from the kitchen/common room area. Those desks are production offices when people rent your studio space. If this is just for your use then fine, but if you plan on renting out its use then they're not going to use it for editing bays, this will be where a producer or production manager is working. You can temporarily move someone so you can use the office as a control room for the sound booth. And just how often will you actually need a proper sound booth? I've seen people build or buy collapsible sound booths that store flat when not in use.

All the rooms that are not the studio or the garage space should have interior roofs. This mitigates audio issues, controls HVAC space and provides for storage above these spaces. You will always want more storage.

What are your plans for HVAC? You need to consider noise as a major factor. You will definitely need to divide the space into zones if only because you may need to shut off the stage's AC during takes. Yet another reason to build up the walls and setup interior ceilings. I've seen more and more use of "mini-split" air conditioning systems, even in some commercial spaces. The big noisy compressors are placed outside the building far from where they can be heard inside. hen a pair of hose pipes (feed & return) run to the units placed on the walls inside. They run very quietly and are naturally zoned, as you just place interior units where you need them and individually control them as you wish. I've seen systems with one or two compressor units outside and then many wall units inside. I know they can be used for heat as well but I think they're generally less efficient cost wise for this so you may wish to make other considerations if your location gets cold in the winter. These can be a lot quieter than forced air systems and take up less space, but you really should plan for this stuff at the start.

Make sure your architect is up on federaland local programs for energy efficiency. Depending how you insulate or paint your roof or maybe use solar roofing tiles or panels, you could get some huge rebates and incentives that not only mitigate your costs but could actually generate income over time. I know someone who built solar into his business's shed roof and he's actively feeding power back to the grid on most days, so his high electricity need business is actually generating profit on his electric bills, which would otherwise be considerable. Definitely something worth considering as such costs can really be crushing otherwise.

That's all that springs to mind right now.
 
Thank you much Mitch.
I had already worked up another idea before I saw your post so I will go back and reconsider things as you pointed out
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kn1kc9jgypk2ol/studio layout C.jpg?dl=0

Good points on the metal structure

The audio booth will not be used much and could be moved down to the corner as you said.
I added another edit/office.
I plan on renting the studio space and bathrooms/dressing but not the workstations so I hadn't thought about a producer needing a spot when renting.

As far as HVAC I was thinking of using one for the studio and one for everything else (not garage) but I knew noise was an issue and was hoping someone like you would chime in (thank you!)

The idea was to wall in the studio all the way to the top and the entire building will have lots of black roof insulation. But the other rooms weren't to have ceilings except for the bottom left corner that has a 2nd floor. Architect already suggested using some 2nd floor for storage just as you said so I need to determine where and how to get to it. I hadn't realized how fast I would run out of storage as you said. There will be a small fenced yard in back that the van could park in when needed.

The green / white cyc was surely a concern so thank you for the suggestions
 
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What do you think about foam backed fabric chroma key green to put over the white when needed? I already have some large-ish foam backed chroma key fabric (10X15?).
Not large enough but a useful start maybe?
 
Very exciting! I think you need to lay out what this building is for.

'Man Cave;? where you and your chums shoot good stuff and store your toys

Rental Studio. Where folks come in and you can give them privacy while getting on with your own edits and being on hand to assist.

Experiencee Studio where the coffee and the client sofa and model changing rooms are critical so the experience is good while some mediocre high end shoot occurs.

---

IMO you MUST be able to function while the rental is totally private.
You probably need your own door office kitchen toilet. This area can be a mess!

The rest should be super slick.. do you want to have a job as a cleaner because thats what having a studio is.

IMO (UK wise) sound is massive and hard. Id look at a complete internal building with 24in insulated walls.

But that eats space and might be completely wrong for you.

Can you back up a truck to load unload gear/scenery/big product?

I think think about the building having a 'journey' with clients enter one door and staff/kit/product/props going round the back.

I think half green white is dodgy as you will have reflection hell - the best shoot space is 360?
 
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WHen I had a studio I only heard people comment on..

parking ease
coffee quality
toilet cleanliness

I foolishly put my focus into camera rigging, nice lighting and the like. What a mug.
 
How much does a shoot have to do with image making??

"Our daily curated menus have been designed by Doggart and Squash to be seasonal and nutritious. We understand how important food is on set and hope to ensure that our food enhances energy and performance. In the colder months we are delighted to offer hot food and* fresh and lighter* meals in the summer months. We are able to accommodate any dietary request and happy to discuss menus in more detail. "

https://www.loftstudios.co.uk/production/london/shoot-catering/
 
Do you know the position of Brand Exec.

Usually sent along to kind of oversee the shoot answer branding questions and get on with thier other work and half check the goings on.

Expect nothing from them all day but 'Budweiser doesnt really do pink'

(and 'I love the coffee!' if you are dong well)

In our space we had a mezzanin overlooking the shoot space with a long desk and a monitor.

The exec could sit up there and do thier other stuff while fielding the odd question.

Usually they would be photographing the monitor* (with phone) and sending it back to HQ.

You must have a place for them.. mainly they are paying !

This mezzanine was really good for the brand exec.

*that is the monitor that needs a LUT
 
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Thanks everyone.
I've never rented to people before so you guys are saying things I hadn't thought of.
Would a desk/table with monitor in the studio be sufficient for the producer/overseer?
I can see where someone renting the studio space would cause interference into the lower editing/meeting room trying to work but I don't see a good way to seperate them given the small size I'm working with.

My main objective for the studio is my own projects but I will rent it too. However I expect the modest size would limit the size of productions interested in renting.

I like the idea of solar panals. I need to check into that again.

If I paint the cyc walls all white with no green what color would you paint the opposing walls in the studio? How about floor material and floor color in studio?

Yes the idea for the studio is to build a room inside the box building to cut down on sound. That is also why I surrounded the studio with rooms to cut down on sound except one side I couldn't do that.

In the present layout a box truck could pull up on the left side of the building to load into the large exterior shop door. A large truck would have to pull up parallel to the building instead of straight in though but the tail end would still be near the shop door. A tall cargo van or small truck could pull into the shop door to load.
 
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I think it is really work anserwing the question..

what is this for?

what could this be for if my business changes a bit?

And then thing trough the situations.
 
firehawk said:
Thanks everyone.
I've never rented to people before so you guys are saying things I hadn't thought of.
Would a desk/table with monitor in the studio be sufficient for the producer/overseer?
I can see where someone renting the studio space would cause interference into the lower editing/meeting room trying to work but I don't see a good way to seperate them given the small size I'm working with.

My main objective for the studio is my own projects but I will rent it too. However I expect the modest size would limit the size of productions interested in renting.

I like the idea of solar panals. I need to check into that again.

If I paint the cyc walls all white with no green what color would you paint the opposing walls in the studio? How about floor material and floor color in studio?

Yes the idea for the studio is to build a room inside the box building to cut down on sound. That is also why I surrounded the studio with rooms to cut down on sound except one side I couldn't do that.

In the present layout a box truck could pull up on the left side of the building to load into the large exterior shop door. A large truck would have to pull up parallel to the building instead of straight in though but the tail end would still be near the shop door. A tall cargo van or small truck could pull into the shop door to load.
Click to expand...

A client or producer might wish to be on set but sometimes there isn't room and sometimes they have other work to do while overseeing the activity. So a good solution is an upstairs office with a large window that overlooks the stage. This way they can not only see the scene but all of the other work going on in the space. Prewiring the space so that a video output can feed off the floor and there's a jack in the office to plug in a monitor is great, but this can easily be added later. You could probably fit a stairwell where you currently have the sound booth and place the office above where you store the equipment.

Anything not on screen should be painted flat black.
 
I don't like the stairway intruding into the studio space so much. Every inch counts in the studio and this just eats valuable real estate. It can be something that goes up from the office space. I still say that everything to the left of the stage should have a roof to give you two stories. That gives you a 22x50 storage area, and you might as well have the steps come up there. I don't see a green room for talent, just the wide open front entry. Actors changing clothes need a bit of privacy and HMU needs space to spread out their stuff. Frankly I don't know how much you plan to use that edit room / office / sound booth, but I siggest considering moving that upstairs above it's current location and devoting that downstairs space to a kitchenette and green room. Those people should be downstairs and your private office space can be tucked away and locked up upstairs. This also clears space for the stairs to go around here somewhere. Keep that office for yourself and make the rental office space with window overlooking the stage go overtop the equipment storage area.

You don't want a door to the outside next to the equipment storage and with access to the stage. That's why you have the garage with its huge door and the other entry from the offices / dressing room. It's both a security risk as well as a bit of wasted space where you could otherwise be storing gear. Trust me, you always need more space.
 
I quite like the idea, but have a few comments based on the video studio I built into a 48x24 ft prefab steel building. Somebody mentioned ceiling on all bar the studio. I’d say the studio absolutely needs a ceiling, and a proper thick one too! We could not record sometimes as the rain on a steel roof means even speaking is trick, let alone recording with lav mics. It was crazily loud, plus we live in a coastal area and damn birds scratching the roof was so common. That’s an annoyance, but worse is that there is practically NO roof loading capability for lighting. Our solution was aluminium truss on ground support legs. We were tungsten lighting of course then but a typical rig was getting on for half a ton, often 300 - 400Kg. The ceiling was designed to support its own weight, plus snow, no more.


My current video studio shows one main disadvantage. Distance from subject, not wall, to camera is too short. Your idea for green and white I actually like if you can perhaps incorporate the areas as facing each other so you can have subjects on the green area and the cameras on the white. Cloth that can be dropped in on a white to make it green takes great care and time to get wrinkle free. I’m working on two sites and I rejigged my audio studio with solid curved green screen and I use this frequently rather than the five minute drive to my video studio that has green, blue, black and white fabric backgrounds. Lighting solid walls is far more forgiving. The old premises tin studio had the tv studio at 24x24 and then a 20x 12 production area with the remainder as two edit suites. All were built as room within rooms with ceilings and were soundproof do everyone could work independently. The weakest area was the studio because live mics were horrible due to the steel walls being useless to stop sound going in and out. We had issues with neighbours complaining about sound escaping, and rain and birds just brought some projects to a halt. We ended up painting the far wall of the production area green, and shooting in there. The studio evolved into the work area. Never totally successful for what we intended. We ended up with desks and junk in the big room. Treat a steel building as a frame dork that keeps wind and rain out. Then build off the concrete slab independent rooms you can put proper rooms in. Last comment. Small vocal booths as in 1m x 2m are simply horrible to work in, as you need to treat the walls heavily to remove the boxiness and have bass traps. This is incredibly oppressive in a small space. People will not find it nice to work in. If you climb into a wardrobe at home full of clothes, and sit there with the door closed, you will experience the effect. It records ok but is quite horrible.
 
We dont really know the height of this.. or how you can mezzanine.

Its pretty important as it could add 70% to your floorspace.

Or maybe keep it simple and keep the budget down.

Really Id be engaging an architect or designer.

None of your designs seem to have any 'vibe' in terms of aesthetics or flow.

ONce again.. write down.. (and tell us)

this space is for

if my business changes a bit this space will be for

The you can break it down..
client arrives.
takes off coat and bag (do you have a coat and bag zone)

So many clients come onto the shoot space and dump thier $2g latop on the floor and then get cross if you stand on it.

--

Verbal communication really helps..
"hi this is the space, my office is up here and not part of the hire, in a fire please leave and gather at the front of the building"

"You can store your coats here
we try and keep the shoot space free of people where possible
props go here"
etc

We did a big blooper when a client went through my privat office into my private kitchen and found dirty mugs.

But we didnt have signage or a verbal chat banning a client from that area - so it was our (my) fault - or pointin her to the client beverage area .. with clean (brand new) mugs

One of the problems was she was late.. Id welcomed the initial group and then got onto set building .. she turned up late and I didnt see.
 
Thank you Paul and Morgan for the great info.
I'm looking over your input and forward to architect and will answer questions when I return.

How critical is a real green room in a small scale studio like this? Would expanding a bathroom/dressing to add a seating (ie sofa or couple chairs) area be acceptable?

Is it acceptable for renters to use the meeting table and the desk next to it? That would still allow us to be somewhat separated by me using the top office and bottom workstations and give them straight line access to entry, kitchenette, meeting table, desk, bathrooms/dressing and studio

I'm planning on window on roof area above storage to oversee the studio.

Yeah studio shooting distance/depth is concern. Can back up and shoot diagonal from door to gain few feet in a pinch?

The 5X5 audio VO booth seems problematic. It's in the way somewhat. Could move as Mitch said. Sounds like the user experience not record quality is issue with it. Would it be just as good to use temp setup in studio to record VO? Main use for that is me and a guy I know who won't have problem. Mostt VO I get offsite but booth is another factor to consider for having someone come in to record...

Due to cost I don't really have means other than metal building. The manufactured load can vary and certainly factor we've been discussing. I'm trying to determine what kind of weight load the studio section needs
 
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Remember it's dynamic load, not static. So if you are rigging a 30 pound light from a ladder and it slips, that's a instantaneous extra 230 pounds, but the shock load is uch greater. If the roof is loaded in winter and the roof is already stressed, this is collapsing weight when inertia and momentum add their forces. Steel frames can have real I beams in steel, or light weigh pressed and folded versions, and these really can't take any weight at all. The stories of car workshops where they attach a chain hoist and try to pull a V8 out, and instead of the engine block going up, the ceiling comes down. Most engineering places use ground supported hoists. Truss, as I mentioned does the job and can even become part of standing sets, but it's rare prefabricated buildings can take any weight on the purlins, and the rafter members are rarely that rich in spare capacity. Decent steel isn't needed for just the roof support.
 
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