TimTheFoolMan
Well-known member
The stickies will tell you that the narrow pattern of a shotgun is generally NOT the best choice for recording indoors, due to other issues that come along for the ride with a narrow pattern. - Tim
Zoom h4n VS Marantz pmd661 VS Sound Devices 702...
- Thread starter Faymus Media
- Start date
totalpackage
New member
Guys/Gals,
In trying to clear up a few derogatory comments about the H4n, I offer my opinion. I just finished recording a indy film with a H4n. It was invaluable and the sound is great. I think most people simply don't know how or refuse to put in the work to get good sound. Also, every machine has it's limitations and so does the H4n. It's not a 722/744/788, or any of the mid-level recorders. It's not right for every production – some directors will not hire you unless you use an SD or other high-end brand. But used within it's limitations, the H4n is the indie soundman's best friend. Use a good-to-excellent mic (ME66/67 w/blimp+fuzzy for me; would love a CS-3e) properly with SOUND BLANKETS when appropriate and you will get great dialogue when you KEEP THE MIC AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE! And yes I do mean to shout because this is the one thing I find sound people get lazy on. They will be 7 to 10 feet away with all sorts of BKG noise and wonder why their track is so noisy when the gain is turned up, duhhh! Understand the shot and the camera angle and 3-4 feet from talent is almost always possible. Even with highly directional mics GET CLOSE. With a shotgun, the H4n will record 3 channels in 4-channel mode (4 channels use built-in mics + 2 XLRs). I use the three channel setup to record 2 main characters with lavs while they interact with other characters, such as with restaurant scenes. I use the boom for in/out characters, or reverse the set-up if the main characters are walking through interactions with bit characters.
I find that most sound people show up and start figuring out how to mic a scene. That is poor planning at work. When working on an indie budget, organization and preparation is key. I pre-map and trouble-shoot every scene and location before-hand, figure out how to best deploy my equipment, then make moves to borrow or (gasp) rent what I determine I will need extra in advance. Using sound blankets is key to reducing echo and controlling the sound in a space. Don't get lazy; boom from above for better sound. Noisy environment? Shotguns pickup least from the sides, so keep the mic turned so noise sources (like the air conditioner that won't turn off) are to the side and the mic is close to and pointed at the source. Nothing fancy here. This is basic stuff.
I would love to have a SD or Marantz recorder. I may be able to afford a Tascam P2 soon, mostly for timecode work. My zoom will still get a lot of work if only because I can set it up to do things other recorders are completely impractical for. For one scene in the aforementioned film, the camera is taking a wide shot of two characters on a porch; there is significant, important dialogue to be captured. A boom would be in the shot. We are working fast, fast, fast, so no time to wire with lavs that may wind-up with dropout or cell interference. What to do? Place the H4n clipped to a small ledge in the scene with a high-quality shotgun 2.5 feet from the actors. It took 2 minutes to mic the scene, turn on the recorder, and the sound was excellent; a larger recorder would have been out of the question. Then too, I usually have to work alone, doing setup and mixing and booming without an assistant and the Zoom makes for a small, easily operated package for a one-man sound crew. That is the nature of the indie budget.
The H4n is not designed to compete with $1000 to $7000 recorders. But with quality accessories, it is one heck of a good machine. Face it, equipment will continue to get better, smaller, more versatile, and more affordable. The quality you get will have a lot to do with how you use it to solve film challenges.
In trying to clear up a few derogatory comments about the H4n, I offer my opinion. I just finished recording a indy film with a H4n. It was invaluable and the sound is great. I think most people simply don't know how or refuse to put in the work to get good sound. Also, every machine has it's limitations and so does the H4n. It's not a 722/744/788, or any of the mid-level recorders. It's not right for every production – some directors will not hire you unless you use an SD or other high-end brand. But used within it's limitations, the H4n is the indie soundman's best friend. Use a good-to-excellent mic (ME66/67 w/blimp+fuzzy for me; would love a CS-3e) properly with SOUND BLANKETS when appropriate and you will get great dialogue when you KEEP THE MIC AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE! And yes I do mean to shout because this is the one thing I find sound people get lazy on. They will be 7 to 10 feet away with all sorts of BKG noise and wonder why their track is so noisy when the gain is turned up, duhhh! Understand the shot and the camera angle and 3-4 feet from talent is almost always possible. Even with highly directional mics GET CLOSE. With a shotgun, the H4n will record 3 channels in 4-channel mode (4 channels use built-in mics + 2 XLRs). I use the three channel setup to record 2 main characters with lavs while they interact with other characters, such as with restaurant scenes. I use the boom for in/out characters, or reverse the set-up if the main characters are walking through interactions with bit characters.
I find that most sound people show up and start figuring out how to mic a scene. That is poor planning at work. When working on an indie budget, organization and preparation is key. I pre-map and trouble-shoot every scene and location before-hand, figure out how to best deploy my equipment, then make moves to borrow or (gasp) rent what I determine I will need extra in advance. Using sound blankets is key to reducing echo and controlling the sound in a space. Don't get lazy; boom from above for better sound. Noisy environment? Shotguns pickup least from the sides, so keep the mic turned so noise sources (like the air conditioner that won't turn off) are to the side and the mic is close to and pointed at the source. Nothing fancy here. This is basic stuff.
I would love to have a SD or Marantz recorder. I may be able to afford a Tascam P2 soon, mostly for timecode work. My zoom will still get a lot of work if only because I can set it up to do things other recorders are completely impractical for. For one scene in the aforementioned film, the camera is taking a wide shot of two characters on a porch; there is significant, important dialogue to be captured. A boom would be in the shot. We are working fast, fast, fast, so no time to wire with lavs that may wind-up with dropout or cell interference. What to do? Place the H4n clipped to a small ledge in the scene with a high-quality shotgun 2.5 feet from the actors. It took 2 minutes to mic the scene, turn on the recorder, and the sound was excellent; a larger recorder would have been out of the question. Then too, I usually have to work alone, doing setup and mixing and booming without an assistant and the Zoom makes for a small, easily operated package for a one-man sound crew. That is the nature of the indie budget.
The H4n is not designed to compete with $1000 to $7000 recorders. But with quality accessories, it is one heck of a good machine. Face it, equipment will continue to get better, smaller, more versatile, and more affordable. The quality you get will have a lot to do with how you use it to solve film challenges.
robotsound
Well-known member
I wanted to add another data point for anyone with a project studio.
I have both a Marantz PMD661 and a PreSonus Firepod/FP10 recording interface. I have tested the preamps from both units with the same microphone in the same recording conditions. The noise floor between these units is essentially just about identical.
With the Marantz PMD661, I am never concerned about preamp hiss. I can't speak to the other units mentioned here since I haven't tried them personally. I will say that I'm very happy with the PMD661 though, and I would definitely recommend it.
I have both a Marantz PMD661 and a PreSonus Firepod/FP10 recording interface. I have tested the preamps from both units with the same microphone in the same recording conditions. The noise floor between these units is essentially just about identical.
With the Marantz PMD661, I am never concerned about preamp hiss. I can't speak to the other units mentioned here since I haven't tried them personally. I will say that I'm very happy with the PMD661 though, and I would definitely recommend it.
Robotsound thanks for sharing!
Is your Marantz an Oade brothers mod or factory standard? I am debating which to get and wondering if the extra cost is worth it. Thanks!
Is your Marantz an Oade brothers mod or factory standard? I am debating which to get and wondering if the extra cost is worth it. Thanks!