Zoom H4N problem

Matt Gottshalk

Matt Gottshalk

Resident Preditor
Used it to record audio this weekend for a 5D mkii shoot.

Transferred the files to my mac.

The main audio clip I need is 440Mb, but does not play, has a duration of 0, even on the H4N device itself.

How can it have a huge file size and yet there is no audio?

Any ideas?
 
I hate to ask but... are you sure that audio was actually recorded? Are you sure that your routing was correct? Did you use headphones to monitor while recording? Were the meters showing level? Did you do a quick test record and playback while in the field to be sure that the unit was properly capturing?

You may have a huge file of recorded silence. I've seen it happen before.
 
Yes to all.

There are files before and after that playback fine.

Turns out the person recording audio changed the batteries midway through....probably w/o letting the h4n close the file properly.

Crap.
 
mcgeedigital said:
Turns out the person recording audio changed the batteries midway through....probably w/o letting the h4n close the file properly.
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That'll do it.

Are you having him racked, flayed or boiled in oil? Having him drawn and quartered is always fun too, but burning at the stake is just a little too Joan of Arc.:kali:
 
unclebob6958 said:
but burning at the stake is just a little too Joan of Arc.:kali:
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I don't know about that, stakes a fire are the staple for monumental FU's like that...however, maybe you can just change his/her batteries.
I feel for you, mcgeedigital. I hope you can find a workable solution...
 
Lesson learned.

I'll put my SD302 between it and the NTG-3 next time.

Two double aa's feeding phantom power to a shotgun just is a non starter for the H4N.
 
mcgeedigital said:
Lesson learned.

I'll put my SD302 between it and the NTG-3 next time.

Two double aa's feeding phantom power to a shotgun just is a non starter for the H4N.
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Solid plan. The 302 is gonna have cleaner preamps and limiters anyway.

One thing to note that I discovered, the line-in on the H4n is -10dBV, so the tape out of the 302 is likely going to work better for headroom.
 
Ahh...got it. Only do short form stuff so the all day shoot never entered my mind. That would be a problem in that case if you had to constantly worry about when to swap out batteries.
 
would this work better if you had ac plugged in? (can you do that?)

Im trying to shop what recorder to buy, looks like the h4n is one of the best.

Seems the XLR inputs might be worth the extra $100 or so over most of hte other low level recorders.

Do you think it is? (Im shooting with the d90 so i def need something)

I wonder if its worth it to buy this if i plan on upgrading to a canon 7d or someethig else later with its own mic inputs?
 
Probably, but ht e bigger issue is that the Zoom, with only two AA's, eats through them at a viscious rate when providing power to a shotgun mic.

The solution, as it usually is, is to just put my SD302 in between and let the mixer provide power. it also has better preamps.

The Zoom is essential, IMO in getting quality sound, I would HIGHLY recommend it if you are getting the 7d. The 7d's mics are pretty worthless.
 
The Edirol R44 looks like a sweet deal with 4 track recording, xlr/trs combo jacks, good phantom etc. But you have a relatively short battery life on that too, but it probably supplies better phantom. You can get one with modded preamps for 1,030.00 or so from Oade Brothers. Phantom is going to kill any recorder's record time. I use Rode NT3s or an NT4, which both use 9v battery for days of use with no phantom.
 
ehh, thats a bit outta my price range.

Even the H4N at $285 is gonna take some planning to purchase.

hell my whole setup right now including lighting, camera, lenes etc.. is still well under $1,000

:(
 
I just listened to my MK-012 on one of them. Good Oktavas from Sound Room are great mics, but they have a very weak signal. With the H4n I had to crank up the gain to 100%, and while it only sets you back $300.- I would say that the quality of the preamps make it a no-go without a mixer. Of course hot mics would sound MUCH better, so it might work with a good mic like my AT4073a. Then again it kind of doesn't make sense to drop more into a mic than your recorder... well, it all depends on your needs. Just wanted to mention that about the MK-012 and the H4n together.
 
USLatin said:
Then again it kind of doesn't make sense to drop more into a mic than your recorder... well, it all depends on your needs.
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Actually, that's not true.

Purchasing a great mic is ALWAYS a great investment. I've gone from reel-to-reel tape to ADAT to Pro Tools, and the only thing that has stayed the same are my mics. The reel-to-reel is worth about 5% of what I paid, the ADAT about 10%; the mics are worth about 75% and still sound great. There are studios out there that still use - and highly prize - mics from the '40's and '50's that are worth more now than when they were first made.

When you find that it's time to upgrade your recorder and/or mixer, or get one or both instead of connecting directly to the camera, you won't have to upgrade your mic. Keep in mind that it's all about signal-to-noise ratio and signal flow. Get a great mic and use the Zoom with it's noisy pre-amps. Then add a good mixer and bypass the Zooms noisy pre-amps, then get the quality field recorder.

If nothing else, at least you can get some decent money back when you decide to sell your nicely maintained mic. You won't get much for anything else.
 
I agree. Mics are tools you can just buy once and never need another (of that model for a specific use) again. That's not always possible because you have to have something, so you can't just wait to work until you can buy the best. Once I got my kit together with the prosumer setup, I tried, and try not buy anything again unless it's the model I really want. If the thing I want is 500.00 more than I can afford now - I can make due with my first round until I get 500 more dollars together for the right tool. Really it's more expensive to get the cheap stuff because you have to pay for 2 mics before you get your sound right.

Also a good mixer is pure gold. Recorders will come and go, but make a goal to get a good mixer and at least 3 awesome mics. (Lav, Hyper, Shotgun).
 
Yea, I actually agree with you guys. That's why I then wrote the "... well, it all depends on your needs." But saying that is so far off that I should have taken that out completely. A really good mic is a fantastic investment, period.

The rest still stands though. The preamps on the H4n are barely decent, at least when pushed. The only thing that saves it is knowing the cost of the camera. Or if you used it with a MixPre.

I wish I had more money for mics, but I can't complain not being an audio guy and having the Oktava with an SD preamps to run it and an AT4073a. Nice little boom, GPS and a K-Zep. No lavs though... I would l-o-v-e just one 400 series lectrosonic for myself, from the MM-1 to the camera. Simple and good quality. I am going to wait for the Magic Lantern and use an MM-1 and record using the 16/48 in the camera. It will me much easier that way and the sound will be far better than from the H4n, unless the camera is noisy... hope not. I wish I could monitor the recording though! But for bigger jobs you just hire someone with a nice 744T, etc, and call it a day. I could use the lectro to send the mixed output from the recorder out to the camera too. Edit with that, then use the separate tracks to build from scratch.

I wish I had more money to invest into the audio for my little personal kit.
 
USLatin said:
I wish I had more money to invest into the audio for my little personal kit.
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I think that is true for everyone! That being said, I think Rode has some amazing "bang for the buck" products. The new NTG-3 Shotgunn seems like a winner, being comparable to the Sennheiser 416 at 2x the price. I too want a nice Lectrosonics unit. I've been using one from work, and I have yet to get an RF hit. Still the Sennheiser G2 I also use from work has served me well. I'm going to buy a G3 unit for myself, but keep my eyes on Lectro for when I am all growed up.

As for Recorders the H4n does interest me, as I have an H4 that I like now. But I use it with Rode NT3 Hypers, which run on battery. With that setup I have gone to many client's office to record them for radio ad VO, and it sounds awesome. However the H4 does not keep good sync when dropped into a video project - way too much drift to match camera audio. The R4 Pro on the other hand will keep sync through a whole tape of camera audio. I suspect the R44 (which I want) will do the same. By the time you blend an H4n with a MixPre, you're at the price of an R44. However any audio camera or portable recorder, will sound better if you run through a MixPre first.

All anyone can do is research what your needs are, what you think they will be, and set aside as much as you can towards that goal. I set up a second savings account just for gear. It's easier to keep that money out of the mix if it's in it's own account. When I was working full time at my main video job I used that money to live on, and every bit of money I made on the side I put in the "Special" account. That's how I got my PMW-EX1. It took me a year and a half and my whole Tax Return, but dang it I got it!
 
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