Zoom H4 For Backup Audio??

tverhaar

tverhaar

Active member
Looking for opinions and input...

In thinking about the issue of backup audio for my video (I once experienced a bit of a disaster in this department), I thought about using a separate audio recording device and was looking at the Zoom H4. It is small and compact and at about $300 and able to record upi to 24 bit and 96Khz (to SD cards), I thought it would be a pretty reasonable way to make sure I got the sound. It has built in mics (stereo) which, of course, would have to be close to the talent, but you can even plug in external mics if neede. Since it isn't tape based, I am guessing I could synch the sound back to the video pretty well.

Does this make any sense? Any thoughts or suggestions? Anyone use this device yet? Better alternatives at a similar cost?

Thanks!
Terry
 
Terry I use the H4 in certain situations (Recording with 2 hyper card rode NT5 (48v phantom power) mics live band performances or stage performances. Or I may take feed from board in XLR channel 1 and record ambiant audio in XLR channel 2).

But the recorder I use most is my edirol R09. It has built in stereo mics like the H4, is much smaller in size, has much better battery run times, user controls etc. The only downside to it is that you only have the choice of using either the 1/8 mic or line in port, so you can't use multiple mics and control audio levels independantly. Also you don't have 48v phantom power. That being said it is my go to recorder for most cases as it's so quick and easy to use that I prefer it to the H4.

Also just so you know, Zoom has a new recorder coming out in August (delayed release date from June) teh Zoom H2. Which will have 3 built in mic elements and teh ability to record 5.1 surround using them. 4GB SD card recordable, much smaller than the H4, 1/8 mic and line inputs, looks like more intuative controls and will only be $199.

I have one on pre order from sweetwater.com, but haven't received mine as of yet, as they aren't available as I said until August sometime.

I record to these units for my primary audio and use my camera audio (shotgun mic and wireless for backup sync audio) and sync in post. I also use an edirol R4 (4 track hard drive recorder) for my reception and concert audio (take feed from sound board in Ch1/2 and use mono mic in Ch3 and wireless in Ch4 for 4 track mix that I mixdown to 5.1 surround in post).
 
Wow! Thanks for the great input from everyone. And Vegas, thanks for the heads up on the Zoom H2. It really looks like a winner. It doesn't seem like you really give up much from the H4 except maybe the dual (stereo) XLR inputs. And, I guess, the potential for four track recording as a an interface? But for standalone use, the new H2 seems pretty hot. Does that seem accurate?
 
...I've been using the H4 for about 9 months now with a Sennheiser e912
boundary mic, that I use to record a third track that I mix with the camera
audio.

It's a good little unit provided you can live with it's limitations:

PROS

- 96K 24bit audio
- Built-in stereo mics are useable ( not great, not terrible )
- Dual XLR inputs
- Pre-amps are not bad for a cheap unit
- 80 dB S/N when recording line-in from a mixer
- Small
- Cheap


CONS

- Does Not Keep Sync ( Clock runs a little slow )
Can be fixed in post, but it's a nuisance.

- Has a -40 db BEEP when running on internal batteries
at anything other than 96K 24bit.

This beep can be fixed with an external battery pack,
which is quite easy to build. I get almost 30 hours from
a 6 C-cell pack while powering a single phantom mic.
( I built the pack for less than $10 )

- Display is fairly hard to read. Tiny text and low contrast.

- Dorky tripod mount cradle


...I'm hoping they fix the clock for the H2 model. I wish they
would revamp the H4 or come out with a PRO version that
addesses all of these stupid little issues. It's great for the
price, but I'd pay a lot more for a PRO version.

.
 
- Has a -40 db BEEP when running on internal batteries
at anything other than 96K 24bit.

This beep can be fixed with an external battery pack,
which is quite easy to build. I get almost 30 hours from
a 6 C-cell pack while powering a single phantom mic.
( I built the pack for less than $10 )

.
Click to expand...
Dingo,

Would you be willing to post your power pack design?
 
MediaCrafter said:
Dingo,
Would you be willing to post your power pack design?
Click to expand...

...There's really not much to it. I went to a local electronic surplus store ( Active Surplus here in Toronto ) and bought a black plastic 6 C-cell battery holder. Next I searched through a pile of old AC wall-wart power-supplies to find one that had a connecting cable that was an exact match to the Zoom H4's AC adapter. Once I got home, I cut the cable from the wall-wart and soldered the cable to the 6 C-cell battery holder, making sure that the polarity of the connecting cable matched the H4's AC adapter ( I used an inexpensive multimeter to do this ), then bound things up nice and neat with black electrical tape.

I did a run-down test by setting the H4 to record at a very low MP3 bit rate, then ran a fresh set of alkaline batteries into the ground. When I popped out the SD memory card and measured how long the MP3 file was, I saw it was roughly 28.5 hours long. This kind of blew my mind at first, as I wasn't expecting it to run for so long while powering a mic.

I went with C cells as I figured they would be a good trade-off between maximum power versus size, and still be easy to pick-up almost anywhere in the civilized world.

I am quite happy with the results. It gives me almost 30 hours of power for the H4 while powering a mic, and gets rid of a stupid design flaw.
( the notorious -40 dB beep )

:D
 
Did you use some of the batteries in parallel or just all in series? I know most modern electronics are capable of a voltage range so I was just curious about running 9v instead of 3v. I've been hesitating to buy an H4 for the beep and battery life but it would come in handy when my HD-P2 is a bit big to carry around.
 
bob15489 said:
Did you use some of the batteries in parallel or just all in series? I know most modern electronics are capable of a voltage range so I was just curious about running 9v instead of 3v.
Click to expand...

They're 1.5 volt cells, so I had to run them in series to get the voltage up to 9 volts. I don't know what the lowest operating external voltage is for the H4, so I went with 9 volts which is approximately what the H4 AC adapter puts out, even though the adapter is spec'd much higher.

Once you add an external battery pack to it, the H4 becomes quite a good little unit. Small, good sound, and very long battery life.

.
 
The H4 is a totally frustrating product because Zoom cheaped out and cut corners on what could have been a great product. The base specs are very good, but the quality control is poor and there are some serious design shortcomings. I bought three H4's trying to find one that worked correctly, but they all had issues. One had a bum display, but in retrospect I should have kept it because otherwise it worked great. The next had one dead mic. The third one had noise issues. The controls are cheap, tiny, and straight from hell and the display/menu is not much better. Basic functions like setting levels are buried in the menu. For another $100, Zoom could have fixed every problem and owned the market. The built in mics are actually pretty good and the pre's are just fine. The H2 only costs $200, so expect them to cut more corners--although it looks like the design is somewhat improved.
 
My H4 worked perfectly ( well, as well as an H4 does ) right from the get go. Yes it's too bad that Zoom didn't build a more professional unit, as the H4 is a very good start, that could have been amazing if they had taken it further.
 
Well, despite my ragging on the H4, I would consider trying an H2 for several reasons.

1) It's only $200--nothing else at this price point
2) Interface has improved from H4--dedicated level controls added and improved interface
3) Added tripod mount
4) Added date/timestamp for files
5) Zoom is aware of the nature of the H4 circuit problems and the H2 will not have the same problems.
6) It's a crapshoot, but only a $200 one and the unit can be tested and returned. These are due sometime this month.
 
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Line level into an Edirol R-09 is absolutely the bees knees. Have been using one in my mixing bag for about a year. And it's SMALLER than my video iPod.
 
I'm interested if the surround capabilities of the h2 are real. I guess if it really records 4 different channels it should be pretty good. With the tripod compatibility you could mount it on cam in the hotshoe with the correct adaptor. Then just need to find some kind of wind protection.
Is it true that for the h4 you need some proprietary zoom software to offload the recording sound?
 
The H4 doesn't need any proprietary software to offload the files--they're standard WAV's and MP3's. As far as the surround capabilities of the H2, I wouldn't expect miracles. I don't think it encodes surround info to 4 channels, but the Samson site isn't clear, so maybe I'm mistaken. Generally 5.1 sound is mixed from mostly mono sources.
 
Thanks for the clarification about importing the files. I tough i read a review were they said otherwise, thats why i wanted to double check some source i can trust.
If its really four mics then you should get some surround feel. Guess we will have to wait untill someone tries it!
 
I use my zoom h4 quite alot.

There are definately problems with the cheap design quality - for me the mic level buttons don't work reliably so you have to keep moving them around to set low/ mid / high. Also setting levels using the jogger is very slow.

A major point though is I think it is kinda crazy they do not have a power supply meter in the display - You would have thought it was vital to know how much power you have left in a portable device? But there seems to be nothing built in to help.

Other than its pretty good and has been quite helpful on more than one occassion.
 
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