Zoom H1 + Rode Video Mic Pro

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bronxjragon

Well-known member
I have a shoot in Central Park two days from now, I don't have a dedicated audio guy but I do have a Zoom H1 and Rode Videomic Pro so will just have to ask a buddy to be my "sound guy"...basically I have to setup the sound for him and he'll just hold the boom before I go back behind the camera. My question...
for outdoors, which is generally noisy, should I just set the Rode Videomic Pro to 0 db, no low-cut? Also on the Zoom H1 should I turn hi-cut off? Recording level to around 50?

I really am a newbie to audio, I have had luck with indoor stuff, but outdoors I have no reference. Last time I tried in a subway and my God everytime a train passed by my ears nearly bled listening to the dailies.
 
Keep the low cut on. Hi cut won't matter much. Keep the wind screen on it and keep it as close to possible to the talent or subject without it getting in the shot.
 
bronxjragon said:
I see, is low-cut something I should generally keep on the h-1 or just for outdoors?
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IMO, low-cut is on for virtually all dialog, whether indoors or out. Unless your talent is James Earl Jones, there's almost no speech information in the very low frequencies. Even a bass voice has little energy below 80Hz. Ony time I would turn the low cut off would be for music.
 
Steve House said:
IMO, low-cut is on for virtually all dialog, whether indoors or out. Unless your talent is James Earl Jones, there's almost no speech information in the very low frequencies. Even a bass voice has little energy below 80Hz. Ony time I would turn the low cut off would be for music.
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Awesome, so settings for H1 = low-cut on, recording volume around 50?
Rode videomic pro = 0 db, no hi-cut?

Again, this is for outdoors NYC, pretty noisy...I fear I may have to dub but might as well try to get the best audio
 
bronxjragon said:
recording volume around 50?
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There is no general level setting that you can recommend. The level control on a recorder is equal to the focus ring on a lens. Your best bet is to turn on the Auto Level switch on the back.

Do some test shooting as well. I find with the VideoMic Pro that I get decent sound if I have it on -10 and have my GH2 on its lowest audio level setting.
 
Sam Mallery said:
There is no general level setting that you can recommend. The level control on a recorder is equal to the focus ring on a lens. Your best bet is to turn on the Auto Level switch on the back.

Do some test shooting as well. I find with the VideoMic Pro that I get decent sound if I have it on -10 and have my GH2 on its lowest audio level setting.
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-10 and lowest audio level? Unless your indoors that'll work. Outdoors forget about it. Unless the GH2 has AGC which will really mess things up. I don't know, no experience with GH2. I'm using it with the Zoom h1.
 
bronxjragon said:
I have a shoot in Central Park two days from now, I don't have a dedicated audio guy but I do have a Zoom H1 and Rode Videomic Pro so will just have to ask a buddy to be my "sound guy"...basically I have to setup the sound for him and he'll just hold the boom before I go back behind the camera. My question...
for outdoors, which is generally noisy, should I just set the Rode Videomic Pro to 0 db, no low-cut? Also on the Zoom H1 should I turn hi-cut off? Recording level to around 50?

I really am a newbie to audio, I have had luck with indoor stuff, but outdoors I have no reference. Last time I tried in a subway and my God everytime a train passed by my ears nearly bled listening to the dailies.
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Did you ever notice that nobody ever says "I don't have a dedicated audio guy on my crew so I'm going to have to ask a buddy to fill in for me on the camera so I can pay proper attention to the sound myself."
 
Steve House said:
Did you ever notice that nobody ever says "I don't have a dedicated audio guy on my crew so I'm going to have to ask a buddy to fill in for me on the camera so I can pay proper attention to the sound myself."
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No so take your useless snide attitude somewhere else canada. Im here for info about settings not useless comments from trolls like you lol
 
bronxjragon said:
No so take your useless snide attitude somewhere else canada. Im here for info about settings not useless comments from trolls like you lol
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You're the one who needs to adjust their attitude, my friend. What makes you think sound is any more 'set and forget' than are the camera's white balance, iris, focal length, and distance settings? There are no magic settings that will give you good results in a given scenario, so asking about 'settings' as if there are is pointless. As Sam said, it's like asking what you ought to set the lens' focal length and focal distance to ... you can't know that until you're shooting. Low-cut on to reduce wind and handling rumble can be said to be a good general practice. But the level settings, either of the -10 pad in the mic or the recorder's level control, cannot be generalized. If the sound source is so loud that the mic risks overloading the recorder inputs, turn on the pad. If it's not, don't. Recorder hi-cut? If the speaker has lots of sibilance in their speech, turn it on. If they don't, turn it off. The recording gain controls are set to whatever gives you the proper recording level on the meters at the moment you are making the recording ... such settings cannot be determined in advance since it depends on the loudness of the speaker and the distance the mic is from him, something that is impossible to know until you get there. You have to do a soundcheck on the scene. As for what settings will reduce background noise such as the subway experience you related, there aren't any ... the pad and recording gain controls aren't selective, they make everything, both the sound you want and the sound you don't want, louder or softer equally. The only solutions if the background noise is too high and you can't control it are to either use a more directional mic and/or to get the mic closer to the talent's mouth, something you'll only be able to check by monitoring through headphones as you're recording.
 
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The fact that you find Steve's comment useless simply enforces his comment. The myth that sound is somehow more simple and easier to accomplish successfully than image is evident in your comments and attitude. The idea that sound equipment can be set to a certain setting and get good sound is as rediculous as the idea that a camera focus and exposure can be set to a certain setting and get good image. A filmmaker would not even consider putting the camera in the hands of a PA, turn off the viewfinder, and say just do the best you can. Time and again I see a PA handed a boom, with no headphones, and told to just keep it out of the frame.

In effect, your question is how can I get great sound without proper equipment and someone skilled in using it. The simple answer is "you can't".

bronxjragon said:
No so take your useless snide attitude somewhere else canada. Im here for info about settings not useless comments from trolls like you lol
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Steve House said:
Did you ever notice that nobody ever says "I don't have a dedicated audio guy on my crew so I'm going to have to ask a buddy to fill in for me on the camera so I can pay proper attention to the sound myself."
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This is good advice.

Assume I were "a newbie" to photo/video. Then you definitely would not hire/trust me for shooting a wedding, an event, or whatever important to you and your loved ones. When it comes to audio recording, the same can be said of "a newbie to audio." However, life is always imperfect. If you can't get pro help on the audio part, getting some help on the video part and pushing yourself to a semi pro audio level could help you a lot. That's what Steve meant.

bronxjragon said:
No so take your useless snide attitude somewhere else canada. Im here for info about settings not useless comments from trolls like you lol
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Unfortunately, good advice wasn't taken well.
 
Okay, guys, let's take it back a notch. Bronxjragon, keep in mind many of the people here are pros and make a living doing sound. And they are giving you some sound advice. LOL, pun intended.

Seriously, the analogy that was used about leaving a camera unattended/unmonitored is very appropriate here. If your boom op cannot monitor the sound, how can he/she know they are getting you the best sound? You would be hurting your own efforts by doing this. The slightest re-angling of the mic can make a world of difference by using the mic's off-axis rejection. Many times on set, if I have some type of anomalous sound (traffic noise, etc.) I can significantly reduce it by re-positioning the mic, but I have to hear the results to do this. If I can't, then it's all a crap shoot if there is anything usable on the recorder. If I cannot monitor, I don't do sound. But that's because I have been doing this long enough to know what to do and when.

Sound is very important to a production and a scene can be the most beautiful thing you have ever shot, but if the sound (dialogue, ambience, etc) sounds horrible, that shot may be completely useless. But on the other hand, a scene with a bit of soft focus, or a slight off angle can still be a salvageable scene, if you can make up for it other ways (good audio).

Unfortunately, you would be better off using the onboard mic on your camera, then to capture bad sound due to technique/lack of monitoring off a boom.

And I agree, there is no "magic" level on any recorder that you can "set and forget". It is about anticipating peaks and minimizing the damage and OL's, hence "riding the fader" and "pulling off-axis". If you are shooting, you will not have the time to do that, and still focus on your own job. And sadly, you cannot just hand an untrained person some sound gear and expect even fair results. That is either putting way too much pressure on your friend, or you are not so concerned about the end audio results of your project. Either way, one or the other (video and audio) is going to suffer, probably both.
 
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gpforet said:
The myth that sound is somehow more simple and easier to accomplish successfully than image is evident in your comments and attitude. The idea that sound equipment can be set to a certain setting and get good sound is as rediculous as the idea that a camera focus and exposure can be set to a certain setting and get good image. A filmmaker would not even consider putting the camera in the hands of a PA, turn off the viewfinder, and say just do the best you can. Time and again I see a PA handed a boom, with no headphones, and told to just keep it out of the frame.

In effect, your question is how can I get great sound without proper equipment and someone skilled in using it. The simple answer is "you can't".
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This quote should come inside the box when "film makers" are buying their DSLR's.

Though it really does make me happy to hear "this is the first time we've used a sound guy for our shoots". Progress is being made...
 
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Do you have the free rode deadcat that you get when you register your VMP? You WILL need something like that when working outside because the foam alone is not enough.
Note - I'm pretty sure there is no "High cut" filer. There is a gain level on the H2 that may go "Lo-Med-Hi", but nothing on the mic or recorder that cuts the high frequencies. The reason Sam likes the -10db setting with his GH2 is because the GH2 has AGC going at 4 levels of intensity. If I were using a VMP into a H2, I would start with the Rode VMP set to +20db boost, then set the H2 gain switch (If there is one) to low, then the recording level at 50%. That wimm minimise any noise caused by the H2 pres. That's a starting place, not an instruction for what to record at. You have to test it out before you get to the shoot. Go outside with the mic and the recorder and try it out.

The low cut on the mic will help with rumble from wind and handling. But again, especially indoors, don't just automatically engage it. Use your ears always. I use it inside with no low cut and it sounds awesome. You can hear a difference in voices when it's on/off.
 
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