Zoom F4 Firmware update

Hope others are seeing this because this is a pretty big update. The F4 with this gets the advanced limiter function of the F8N and the Auto Mix function along with some other fixes and enhancements. Very nice bump in features. These are all things that will make your life easier/ better in the field.
 
Wow, thanks, Joshua. I own the f4 and I'm frankly surprised that they would offer the limiter function to f4 users...
 
What many companies have been learning over the past few years is that they simply cannot sell their 'higher-end' products anymore to 99% of those potentially interested based on a few better features. For the pros-pros whom will absolutely need it, sure. But the rest are simply not going to pay twice the amount for the "better" option since they will be able to use the 'lower-end' version as is.

So it's a smart move to see a sought-after feature added (without any additional work on their end) to continue to move/push sales of the F4.
 
The limiters make sense as they are usable by everyone, the auto mix is a bit of a surprise. I believe this is based off the Dan Duggan auto mix and if so should be really nice for ENG, Documentaries, and recording panes of folks. I haven't tried it yet (need to get some people over and give it a shot) but it is supposed to use some lookahead magic to mute mics that people are not talking into. As far as I can tell this version either works or it doesn't since there are really no settings to change except which inputs are in use. I wouldn't use it on a shoot till I did some testing but could be a real timesaver for sound post and make the recordists life easier.
 
Installed the update on my f4. Haven't tried the advanced limiters yet. How do they compare to, say, the Mixpre 3/6 limiters?
 
after installing ... my f4 is chewing through batteries at 2-3x the previous rate. and only getting audio out of 1 side of headphones ... thinking about reverting to previous firmware, if that is even possible ... is it only me?
 
camnoob said:
after installing ... my f4 is chewing through batteries at 2-3x the previous rate. and only getting audio out of 1 side of headphones ... thinking about reverting to previous firmware, if that is even possible ... is it only me?
Click to expand...

I haven't checked yet power consumption, but there's no problem here with the headphones output. Best is to contact Zoom support.
 
Resest the recorder, and/or try downloading and installing the latest firmware build again, the data could have gotten corrupted somewhere along the line. If that does not work, re-install the firmware build the previously worked.. I'm sure someone has it if it can't be had via Zoom. If the same behavior still exists .. Zoom tech support
 
Can't say about power since I switched to the power banks at about the same time as I updated the firmware, but I haven't had any headphone issues.

The most likely issue is a damaged firmware file or an flawed instal. Actually those are probably 2&3 #1 would be the confuser running things is... confused and a reboot/ factory reset should clear that up.

Files can get flaws if the download has an issue, though generally that will end up with a file that won't install at all. If there is a power glitch or some other unexpected hiccup while the firmware is updating the update can be flawed. If it doesn't "brick" the device it will often have it acting screwy. Which is why they will tell you to have new batteries in the device and have it plugged in when updating firmware. Even so sometimes it takes a second install. Your device is very vulnerable when updating firmware.
I'm using the term device because the above is for anything you are updating firmware on.

Also I would follow even seemingly silly instructions. So for instance the F4 wants only the card with the new firmware on it in slot #1 and no card in slot #2. Seems silly but I did it anyway.

Good luck.
 
scorsesefan said:
Wow, thanks, Joshua. I own the f4 and I'm frankly surprised that they would offer the limiter function to f4 users...
Click to expand...

I am a Zoom F4 and then a Zoom F8n user, and so I wondered if a "F4n" was going to come out before the F4 would get the firmware updates like the original F8 got after the F8n launch.

I guess not! Great news for all of us.

Maybe this new F6 is kinda like an advanced "F4n"???

scorsesefan said:
Installed the update on my f4. Haven't tried the advanced limiters yet. How do they compare to, say, the Mixpre 3/6 limiters?
Click to expand...

The limiters in the Zoom F4/F8/F8n are very very good. And the F series has many other advantages as well over the MixPre series.
 
scorsesefan said:
Installed the update on my f4. Haven't tried the advanced limiters yet. How do they compare to, say, the Mixpre 3/6 limiters?
Click to expand...

Not sure how the MixPre 3/6 limiters work but they are probably pretty much the same as the original MixPre. Assuming that is the case the biggest difference would be that the MixPre limiters are analog and the F series are digital. The analog limiters are fantastic and being analog you don't have any chance of digital clipping (in the limiter anyway) so IF there was clipping it would be a very gentle analog distortion style and not total nasty digital. Having used the MixPre in some very extreme situations where there was just way too much sound, I have never heard any real clipping. The mic craps out before the MixPre.

The F series replicates this pretty closely with a few tricks. It lowers the input by 10dB to give the input extra headroom, delays the signal by a few milliseconds to give the digital section time to analyze the signal and then ads makeup gain to get back to where you started but does limiting on the lower signal so when it adds back the gain the highest it will go is the limit level you set. This sounds like it would be "noisier" and on some high end test equipment it probably is but the preamps on the F series are super clean and have a lot of clean gain and the whole thing happens probably in a chip the size of the head of a pin so for all intents and purposes it's unnoticable.

I will put an asterisk on the above explanations in that it's what I have picked up looking into this question for my self and I have not dissected either unit so some of the specifics may be off but it should be essentially correct.

Personal experience is that they work 99% as effectively. I haven't heard any objectionable artifacts from either limiter.
 
Noiz2 said:
Personal experience is that they work 99% as effectively. I haven't heard any objectionable artifacts from either limiter.
Click to expand...


I can speak from personal experience that my Zoom F8n limiters are just great, I never felt a need to run my Sound Devices 552 in front of it. Have a Zoom F4 as well, which is what I upgraded to from the Sound Devices 552.
 
On good monitors (Tannoy) and good headphones (Focal, Stax), the Sound Devices USBPre2 (same topology as the 702 series) sounds fuller and smoother than the Zoom F4, which sounds thinner and less smooth. Using the original limiters on the F4 (without the extra delay of the new advanced limiters), I didn't like the clipping distortion sound when it clips compared to the Sound Devices more analog/tube-like compression (Schoeps CMC641 or Audix SCX1-HC; male/female speaking or singing in my home studio.). The INARI examples in this thread (mp3) didn't sound much different (listened to the bird calls on Stax earspeakers): https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/31216-sound-devices-mixpre-3-vs-zoom-f4/ . In this example, the SD sounds clearly better to me on the Stax (smoother as noted previously): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6VOEYpm4g (AAC audio).

Since the Zoom F4 preamps are pretty clean, I just make sure the levels never clip (by a safe margin). I haven't tested the advanced limiters (with delay) as I typically use the F4 as a preamp into the 1DX II. Wouldn't be a big deal to fix the delay in post, however the goal was and still is, fast least-pain turnaround. Was going to sell the F4 for the MixPre6, however the price dropped so much on the F4 and there were some issues found with the MixPre6 (battery/power issues, likely solved by now?), we're still using the F4.

If anyone knows the preamps in the Zoom series, would be cool to find out (googled a bit- didn't find anything). Here's what's in the MixPre series (AKM):

Sound Devices

MixPre-3
ADC: AKM AK5576EN Velvet Sound

The 5576 gives an option to run it in a 6-to-3 mode which add another 3dB to the S/N and give it 124 dB instead of a single channel 121dB.
AK5576EN | Product | AKM - Asahi Kasei Microdevices
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK5576EN.pdf
$7.4 each
$3.92 @1000


MixPre-6
ADC: AKM AK5578EN. The MixPre-6 is built on the same architecture as the MixPre-3 but is using the 8 channel ADC AK5578.
And then utilizing the 8-to-4 mode which would add 3 dB S/N and give it a 124 dB range.
AK5578EN | Product | AKM - Asahi Kasei Microdevices
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK5578EN.pdf
$9 each
$4.7 @1000


MixPre-10
ADC: 2 x AK5578

The MixPre10T is using 2 ADC, one for each side of the input groups. They are setup in a 8-to-4 mode like the smaller MixPre3/6 are and therefor add an additional 3dB of S/N and end up with a 124 dB range.
Click to expand...
From: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gee...o-interfaces-their-ad-da-chips-listed-13.html
 
jcs said:
Since the Zoom F4 preamps are pretty clean, I just make sure the levels never clip (by a safe margin). I haven't tested the advanced limiters (with delay) as I typically use the F4 as a preamp into the 1DX II. Wouldn't be a big deal to fix the delay in post, however the goal was and still is, fast least-pain turnaround. Was going to sell the F4 for the MixPre6, however the price dropped so much on the F4 and there were some issues found with the MixPre6 (battery/power issues, likely solved by now?), we're still using the F4.
Click to expand...

The MixPre series had a bunch of issues with flat out not working (SERIOUS issues like "recorded" files missing), but Sound Devices responded quickly with a series of firmware updates (they needed more than one.... as even the update just introduced new problems), and the MixPres seem to be fine now? As that was quite a few weeks ago, so has settled down now and the MixPres are more stable.

And yup, the Zoom F4 going on sale for as little as US$350 means I might as well just keep my F4 forever! Is a good little machine, it just came back to me after being out for a few weeks as a rental on a web series with a friend.
 
jcs said:
Since the Zoom F4 preamps are pretty clean, I just make sure the levels never clip (by a safe margin). I haven't tested the advanced limiters (with delay) as I typically use the F4 as a preamp into the 1DX II. Wouldn't be a big deal to fix the delay in post, however the goal was and still is, fast least-pain turnaround.
Click to expand...

The "advanced" limiters add 1ms of delay, not something you are going to have to deal with in post and they will probably eliminate what you don't like about the clipping. I couldn't find a number for the total delay of the recorder, they all have some, so not sure how much of a jump 1ms is in the over all. The DVX100 that this site is named after had about a frame and a half of delay in it's audio section, so around 40ms.
 
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