zeiss versus nikon: difference in adapter quality

P

PIMP

Well-known member
I 've never really understood the attraction to the pricier quality lenses out there. So far i have been satisfied with using my basic nikon lenses. Am i missing something here in terms of better quality footage with other lenses such a zeiss? I watched dana morris recent footage from a project he is using with the cinemek g35. And he somehow shot in the lowlit subway station in downtown LA. He used zeiss lenses. Which made me think i am missing something with my set up.

Is it worth the hassle to rent these lenses? Is the quality difference substantial? in terms of sharpness and resolution.

thanks
 
Rent the lenses and find out for yourself. Some lenses are a night and day difference compared to their cheaper counterpart, some not so much.
 
Like Huy said give it a try, I have found that the Zeiss lens works better (as in low light performance) with my Brevis adapter than other Nikon lenses.
 
We discuss exactly this question over at Cinevate's Video University and provide an overview of the Zeiss lenses that we carry for use with the Brevis MP.2 adapter. Look for the clip titled: "The Brevis MP.1 Zeiss Lens Review and EX1 FIX Test Footage" . The difference we see is directly related to contrast and the organic feel of the lenses. The only other lenses that we have ever tested with this organic feel is the 30 year old LOMO cinema lenses in our collection.
 
In well lit situations where you can stop down the lens, often one lens isn't all that much better then another(please no one hunt me down and shoot me for such blasphemy).

The difference between good glass and the best glass is often the ability to function 100% at the most open. Many pieces of 50mm glass may be max f1.4 or even f1.2, but they may have light falloff, distortion, fringing, and a lack of sharpness at their most open settings...these lenses often work great stopped to f2-f4.

Once you start handing out the big bucks you can find glass that works almost perfectly at it's widest....but until then, you have to research the glass you're about to purchase, and probably light very well so that you can stop down a little.

Is it worth the hassle to own?(I know you asked the opposite question, but I'm more comfortable coming at this discussion from this direction) If you're asking that question then it probably isn't. If you are someone who will be using your glass often, and need to build a kit that you can trust, learn, and be familiar with...then yes it's worth it in every way you come at it....if you're playing around, getting familiar with adapters, or just making a singular project/film/whatever, then by all means help out your local economy and rent you some glass.....even better hire a DP who has glass and is familiar with it :

You can throw all the best resources at a project, but it's NOTHING compared to resources which already fit together.
 
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Nick raises a good point. Most lenses are fairly good at f5.6 to f8 with respect to edge to edge sharpness, aside from MTF differences.

These are the criteria I find most important for adapter use where we want to be using the 35mm lens wide open, or slightly stopped down, in most cases:

1. Does it have a manual aperture ring?
2. How badly does the lens breath, both physically and visually when focus is racked? This means does it change length physically and does the image look to be zooming in or out while racking focus. Internal focussing lenses like the 17-35 Nikon f2.8 are awesome, particularly if you are using a mattebox with filters.
3. Is the focus ring travel sufficient for accurate focus? Most DSLR EF lenses are pretty poor in this respect. The Zeiss ZF lenses have a great deal of accuracy as we discuss in our overview of them. Most older manual lenses are better than their modern replacements in this respect.
4. Every lens will provide better looking (tighter if you will) bokeh when the aperture blades are brought into the visual field. Depending on the adapter (and in our case the CINEFUSE imaging element used), this will vary. With our CFX and CFXL, the best bokeh is usually 1 to 2 stops in which has little to no impact on light loss. Before you yell about that, check out the CINEFUSE and light loss piece on our site done with a waveform monitor.
So faster lenses that have good edge to edge sharpness when wide open are the ideal solution. Bokeh amongst lenses varies a great deal and is an issue that every lens review should be discussing.
5. For adapter use, edge to edge light fall-off properties are huge. Every lens (including your video camera) has edge fall-off, some as much as a 1 stop from the edge to the center when used with aperture wide open. The Nikon 17-35 f2.8D lens is amazing this way with very even edge to edge illumation at f2.8. Edge to edge fall-off is most critical with wider angle lenses where it tends to be very noticeable. At longer focal lengths (over 50mm) it's not so much of an issue.
6. How good is edge to edge sharpness when the lens is used wide open? This varies tremendously between manufacturers and indeed even within a given lens set. The only reliable way to check this is read trusted reviews, or test yourself.
7. Finally, and something you appreciate when testing a lot of lenses, is contrast and color. The Zeiss lenses (aside from the 35mm f2) have incredible contrast and color. Visually, when compared to other lenses, the blacks are blacker and the colors very organic. We could go on about MTF values and technical specs but what you really want to know is what I've just described.

We've clinically tested a lot of lenses, more than we ever discuss, particularly when you consider our 2/3" relay project and how many cameras/lenses are tested at Cinevate. We've invested over $10K just on OSG charts, and very accurate illumination equipment for them...all for adapter and lens testing.

Here's what we've found:

1. Cinema lenses like the rather antique LOMO ones we have here are the best in every respect in terms of MTF, contrast and physical behaviour. A decent set of cinema lenses starts though at $30 000 give or take. The only downside for adapter use is that the image circle of PL mount cinemas lenses though is about half the size of most adapter solutions which is more of an issue as you dip below focal lengths of 50mm. We've invested a great deal of time making sure the Brevis MP.2 performs well with PL lenses for this reason.
2. The physical characteristics, contrast and color of the Zeiss ZF lenses we have tested (and started stocking after that testing) are the best of any lens, from any manufacturer...but they do exhibit visual focus "breathing" as you get into the 85 and 100mm ranges. If you're used to very expensive cine lenses, you'll see this right away.
3. In terms of zoom lenses, I like three of them, all constant apertures, and all using internal focusing, with manual aperture, (so the lens does not change length as you zoom or focus). These three are the Nikon 17-35 f2.8D, 35-70 f2.8D and the 70-200 f2.8D. The focus throw is too short IMHO on these lenses, and I find the image "cold" but if you're looking for zoom lenses, they are my pick.
4. With older lenses, I really like the FD Canon lens series. They're excellent if you can find older fast Canon branded lenses. We have them in 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 80mm and 135mm flavors, all from f1.4 to f2.8. Kevin Shahinian used them in his breathtaking "SNO".

Whew..time for a fresh coffee :-)
 
PIMP

I did not use any zeiss glass on any of my adapter stuff. I use the Nikon 50 f1.4 and 135 f2. most of the work I do is not adapter related and lenses are rented and I don't have the cheese to spend on the zeiss glass. But I feel the difference isn't huge and is pretty tough for anyone to tell the difference unless they know what they are looking for. Remember that nikon glass is some of the best glass around and is super sharp. Glass is at the top of the list when it comes to picture quality and nikon glass and canon glass are right up there at the top for all of this adapter work. And remember, it doesn't matter what glass you are using if you are not shooting with good light. If you are shooting in great light or with a great lighting setup then everything else will fall into place and you can really start to see lens differences.

Dana
 
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