Zacoto shootout.

kodjo

New member
This is the Zacuto camera shootout 2010, third episode:

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

It is a great test but it would have been better if they had tested different type of cameras instead of different models of the same type.

I would have tested:

Two different 35 adaptor systems, two different DSLR systems, Red one, two different high end cameras, and Fuji plus Kodak. That would have been 9 things to test and compare. I would have tested movement and audio as well.

It is unfortunate they did not test adaptors. They say there are too many cameras and you can't compare apples and oranges. They also say the test is objective because they used outside experts to conduct it. They say they do not make any money with this test because this is not an in house test to promote these things.

But they don't say this:

a) The fact the tests includes only DSLR makes it already a promotion for DSLR since it encourages people to not take a chance with equipement not tested here.

b) The tests did not include movements, pans, and tracking shots which we know are the weak spots of ANY video camera. Am I to assume these type of tests are irrelevant? They are not. Even a low end camera will look great until you move it.

c) They show us 3 films made by professionals. That means we see only the final images, graded and colour corrected after a person has spent incredible time selecting the best takes. I could make anything on any camera given enough time and post production work. So these films tell us nothing pertinent for the average producer.

d) The video is embedded on the Zacuto main page next to the pictures of all sorts of DSLR items for sale. That is not very subdle. If I wanted to sell 35 adaptors, I would conduct an adaptor test and place it in the middle of my adaptor sales page. Certainly I would not want to show too much of the negative aspects of the adaptors.

e) The most poweful works spoken here are "this is the end (of film)". This suggests that it took DSLR to beat film (and not 35 adaptors which have been around for 3 years). Who speaks these words? I don't know. It could be anybody. But showing the person speaking these words in the middle of a large auditorium suggests everybody in the audiotorium agrees. That is called the crowd credibility effect.

f) A film is only as objective as the person who edits it. All of the comments were generally positive. Am I to assume there were no really negative opinions?

In conclusion while the tests are very interesting, they were conducted in very controlled conditions, included only DSLR cameras, and were edited by people who make a living with selling DSLR accessories. One should be mindful of its objectivity. :happy:
 
Last edited:
This is the Zacuto camera shootout 2010, third episode:

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

It is a great test but it would have been better if they had tested different type of cameras instead of different models of the same type.

I would have tested:

Two different 35 adaptor systems, two different DSLR systems, Red one, two different high end cameras, and Fuji plus Kodak. That would have been 9 things to test and compare. I would have tested movement and audio as well.

It is unfortunate they did not test adaptors. They say there are too many cameras and you can't compare apples and oranges. They also say the test is objective because they used outside experts to conduct it. They say they do not make any money with this test because this is not an in house test to promote these things.

But they don't say this:

a) The fact the tests includes only DSLR makes it already a promotion for DSLR since it encourages people to not take a chance with equipement not tested here.

b) The tests did not include movements, pans, and tracking shots which we know are the weak spots of ANY video camera. Am I to assume these type of tests are irrelevant? They are not. Even a low end camera will look great until you move it.

c) They show us 3 films made by professionals. That means we see only the final images, graded and colour corrected after a person has spent incredible time selecting the best takes. I could make anything on any camera given enough time and post production work. So these films tell us nothing pertinent for the average producer.

d) The video is embedded on the Zacuto main page next to the pictures of all sorts of DSLR items for sale. That is not very subdle. If I wanted to sell 35 adaptors, I would conduct an adaptor test and place it in the middle of my adaptor sales page. Certainly I would not want to show too much of the negative aspects of the adaptors.

e) The most poweful works spoken here are "this is the end (of film)". This suggests that it took DSLR to beat film (and not 35 adaptors which have been around for 3 years). Who speaks these words? I don't know. It could be anybody. But showing the person speaking these words in the middle of a large auditorium suggests everybody in the audiotorium agrees. That is called the crowd credibility effect.

f) A film is only as objective as the person who edits it. All of the comments were generally positive. Am I to assume there were no really negative opinions?

In conclusion while the tests are very interesting, they were conducted in very controlled conditions, included only DSLR cameras, and were edited by people who make a living with selling DSLR accessories. One should be mindful of its objectivity. :happy:

You sound like my old girlfriend, RUN YOUR OWN TESTS and stop complaining.
 
I did not know about the BBC tests. Does that mean BBC will not broadcast anything made with DSLR?
 
Tools, tools, tools...

Anyone is free to choose theirs, everybody's happy!...

Lets hope Panasonic (AF100), and Sony (s35) will definitely solve aliasing and rolling shutter issues to end this kind of discussion one and for all...
 
Lets settle this all right now, you want to prove its better, go ahead and do accurate tests of your own and post them. Once with the same standards that all the rest of our gear is held to.

Once you do that, then you have no argument right? then you can just prove your point right?

So again, go run off and shoot some ACTUAL test's with ACTUAL test equipment that WE use to evaluate the camera gear. Use a resolution chart, a waveform monitor, color charts, and properly calibrate it all.
 
I would have liked to see what the experts would have said about vibrating, spinning, and static adaptors and comparing them to DSLR as well as to high end cameras. That would have been a really pertinent comparison between all solutions. I don't see why Zacuto limits itself to promoting DSLR when ther are still so many Adaptor solutions out there. Is there a comprehensive cross platform video test somewhere out there on the internet?
 
Not that I'm aware of, kodjo.

What I think people need to keep in mind with "tests" like these is that there are just so many variables to account for, there's always going to be some group of cameras or technology either left out or handled in a way some might consider "suspect."

I don't speak for Zacuto (or anyone, for that matter), but I believe the point of these pieces has always been to measure the new breed of HDSLRs versus the "gold standard": 35mm film. And as with any "testing," you always have to take the findings with a grain of salt.

If you like the image your camera setup gives you, nothing else really matters.
 
I I don't see why Zacuto limits itself to promoting DSLR when ther are still so many Adaptor solutions out there.

Think for a minute. What does Zacuto sale?

Right DSLR accessories.
They used to sell Letus, but they know that with the upcoming cameras (Sony, Pany, Scarlet etc.), they not gonna make a living from 35mm adapters.

Who can blame them? They run a business based on selling stuff.
If they wanna eat tomorrow, they have to think today.

I live with my LEX and HVX200 till I can get my hands on a Scarlet s35 and the Drama.
I still get jobs and lovely pictures out of it.
And I still think my combo produces a more cinematic look than any DSLR,....

(here, try to do this with any Canon - straight of the camera, no grading or anything)

sequence-03.jpg



.....but more and more clients want me to shoot with the 5D.

What can I say? This is not my hobby, but my living.

Frank
 
Last edited:
I would have liked to see what the experts would have said about vibrating, spinning, and static adaptors and comparing them to DSLR as well as to high end cameras. That would have been a really pertinent comparison between all solutions. I don't see why Zacuto limits itself to promoting DSLR when ther are still so many Adaptor solutions out there. Is there a comprehensive cross platform video test somewhere out there on the internet?

We are editing one next week.
 
If Zacuto believes DSLR are the future, they should just say it instead of claiming they can't include all cameras (which is nonsense). I find it highly suspicious that so many people talk DSLR only and have totally forgotten about the very adaptor systems they were endorsing yesterday. Is this just about money or are these legitimate technical considerations?

Robert, where can we see it your video?
 
Zacuto did two tests previously with different cameras, 35mm DOF adapters vs. 35mm motion picture cameras. One with a model in a bathtub, the other with a classical music trio. I'm not sure if they're still online.
 
The most telling comments from the pros in the Zacuto test were about the need for higher than 1080p acquisition and raw acquisition to really match or exceed the quality of film. That is the ultimate goal.
 
You got it all wrong,it wasnt meant to be "whats best test" ,its just comparison of DLSR's and film in similar situations thats all,it wasnt some kind of tournament.Many people wanted to see this kind of test so they did it.
 
Dino let me guess. It is no longer online. Who wants to draw attention away from DSLR. :)

Word. I can't find the older camera tests. Maybe Joseph Stunzi could help--he did the 2nd one for Zacuto.

I would post my thoughts on DSLR vs. real video cameras with or without 35mm DOF adapters, but I would be considered biased since I rent the latter. I'll just say that I really enjoy shooting with our P2 Varicam in AVC-Intra(adding a Letus Ultimate is just icing on the cake!).
 
Back
Top