Your first screenplay...

R

Ryan-Guy

Well-known member
When you wrote your first screenplay, what were some bumps you hit along the way? Too much writing? Too little? Confusing, or not enough mystery? Etc.

I'm not normally a writer, I produce docs, but I started writing a psych horror, and I'm at page 40, and I just got to the final act. I think that it will come in around 60 pages, and I understand the one/page/minute rule of thumb, but I'm just wondering if most first time writers exceded this or are under it? My plot moves fast, very fast, so I'm thinking (hoping) that it can be padded with longer shots/pacing to get to 80-100 minutes screen time, or maybe my writing is too dense and it will play out much longer than the 1p/m.

But I'd love to hear what your experiences were on your first attempts at a long short or feature script.
 
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Some people write lean first drafts, around 60-80pp (depending on genre)-- then it grows with subsequent drafts, saving those extra pages for the really good stuff to add in; e.g. Tom Lazarus (Stigmata) writes this way, and discusses it in his book. Other write excessive pages then trim with rewrites. Common beginner issues are lack of conflict, on the nose dialog (although that is fine and often good to do on a first draft), excessive description, camera directing, and lack of a clear overarching story goal for the protagonist.
 
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Randall_Oelerich said:
Some people write lean first drafts, around 60-80pp (depending on genre)-- then it grows with subsequent drafts, saving those extra pages for the really good stuff to add in; e.g. Tom Lazarus (Stigmata) writes this way, and discusses it in his book. Other write excessive pages then trim with rewrites. Common beginner issues are lack of conflict, on the nose dialog (although that is fine and often good to do on a first draft), excessive description, camera directing, and lack of a clear overarching story goal for the protagonist.
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Well, I'm hoping thats the way it works out for me. Good to know. I think right now my 1st act is not long enough. By page 4 my character gets stabbed which begins the high concept.

On the nose dialogue? Meaning too obvious?
 
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Ryan-Guy said:
Well, I'm hoping thats the way it works out for me. Go to know. I think right now my 1st act is not long enough. By page 4 my character gets stabbed which begins the high concept.

On the nose dialogue? Meaning too obvious?
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Did you first outline and beat out your story, do sequences (google Paul Gulino sequencing)? Those help immensely so the writing of the actual screenplay is much easier.

OTN (On the Nose) Dialog
"Chris, did you rob the bank?"
"Yes."

BETTER (lame example, but you get the point)
"Chris, did you rob the bank?"
"Well, without the cars and furs, I'll wake up some morning and you'll be gone."
 
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Everybody's first script they feel is the best script ever written. It's not until you keep writing that you realize that first script has tons of exposition, on-the-nose dialogue, clunky descriptions, lack of pithy, etc.

I wrote a full length 110+ pages then trimmed it. Did outline and worked on plot points, etc. It was a tough 4 months writing first draft and 2 months polishing draft. Same experience with next script. Third script I wrote in 6 weeks. It does get better.
 
Basically, everything Randall has said sounds like really good advice, especially breaking down your story in sequences before committing it to the screenplay.

For me, I find it completely impossible to go for the screenplay before I write the story down in treatment form. Just to get that treatment right is hard enough, I can't imagine start writing the screenplay first, I would certainly loose track at 20 pages (which is what will probably happen to you...). Even before I commit to the treatment, I do a ton of research, hundreds of notes, ideas and ruff sketches for future sequences, and will eventually do various drafts of the treatment. And this is all pre-work that will find its way into the finished screenplay, if I start with the screenplay first, I feel I would never get the story's full potential.

Just sayin'
 
Nuno Dias said:
Basically, everything Randall has said sounds like really good advice, especially breaking down your story in sequences before committing it to the screenplay.

For me, I find it completely impossible to go for the screenplay before I write the story down in treatment form. Just to get that treatment right is hard enough, I can't imagine start writing the screenplay first, I would certainly loose track at 20 pages (which is what will probably happen to you...). Even before I commit to the treatment, I do a ton of research, hundreds of notes, ideas and ruff sketches for future sequences, and will eventually do various drafts of the treatment. And this is all pre-work that will find its way into the finished screenplay, if I start with the screenplay first, I feel I would never get the story's full potential.

Just sayin'
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Thanks. I did write out a scene list. Basically a scene by scene with a paragraph or two pointing out the scene plots. Luckily my education bg is psychology, so i've spent a long time doing research already if you get my drift haha! (its a psyche thriller). I'm at page 48, about 5-10 pages from act 3 is my guess. My intro and ending are basically the same, but I am already significantly changing first and second act, minus the catalyst.

Do you guys ever just purposely write on the nose dialog in the first draft, just so that the points that you want to make are made, and then rewrite for the character's voices/attitudest with sub-text? I'm finding that thats helping me a lot pund out pages because I don't have to bang my head on the table trying to figure out what they say in the final version. I write down dialog the easiest way I can come up with, then go back later and shake/hide/misdirect the convo. Or do you find that doing that just turns otn dialog into otn entire conversations, like conversations about things that are normally too obvious to be had.
 
Ryan-Guy said:
Thanks. I did write out a scene list.... Do you guys ever just purposely write on the nose dialog in the first draft, just so that the points that you want to make are made, and then rewrite for the character's voices/attitudest with sub-text? I'm finding that thats helping me a lot pund out pages because I don't have to bang my head on the table trying to figure out what they say in the final version. I write down dialog the easiest way I can come up with, then go back later and shake/hide/misdirect the convo. Or do you find that doing that just turns otn dialog into otn entire conversations, like conversations about things that are normally too obvious to be had.
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Yes! Write OTN for the first draft, just to write faster and get the story written, the first draft written. If some non-OTN dialog comes to mind as you are writing of course use it, but do not slow down writing that first draft just to think of better dialog, etc. By writing OTN for the first draft, then you know what each scene is about, character motivations for each scene-- so that on the rewrites you can write better dialog using various methods (which often includes subtext, but not always)

A couple of other thoughts came to me-- are you breaking up your action narrative into shots, so that each 'paragraph' reads as a shot? That is what you should be doing, it will increase your page count, make for a better 1 page 1 minute fit, and make for a more vertical (fast) read (more white space). Also, are you describing enough in your action narrative? Not necessarily on your first draft, but eventually. You must describe enough detail for the action (not art production description, that is for the production designers). For example (I give Michael Hauge credit for pointing out this scene in his 2nd edition of his book Writing Screenplays that Sell), look at this scene from Lawrence Kasdan's screenplay Body Heat. Kasdan is a master of screenwriting. Look at the amount of detail he puts into letting the actors and director know what should be going on in this scene:

[scrippet]


INT. HALL


Racine crosses the dark living room fast. As he reaches Matty, she lifts her arms to match his embrace. They come together hard and tight. They kiss. And kiss again. Her hands travel over his body, as though she's wanted them there for a long time.


They turn once slowly along the wall, into the dimness of the central hall. Then he rotates her body away from him, holding her close.


MATTY
Yes, yes...


Then she is just nodding. Racine puts his face deep into her hair, closing his eyes as the smell of her washes over him.


Matty turns in his arms and kisses him hard. Racine pulls her close to him and they sink to the floor.


RACINE
That's right... that's right.


CLOSE ON Matty's face, a look that might be anguish. She bites her lip in expectation. Racine moves over her.


MATTY
Please, please ...


She pulls him tightly to her, clinging like a drowning woman.


[/scrippet]
 
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I'm told most 1st scripts are too long. Mine was 109 pages reduced to 100.
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As far as dialogue goes, I commonly write, "Talks about how it felt" initially, then rewrite and rewrite and rewrite until I like it, then individually rewrite each characters Dialogue until I'm about to puke, then take it to my Director, who wants a bunch of things added, then I add them, then take it to my producer who tells me to cut them, then I puke and fight for my story. So far-- i win.
But my stomach hurts!
 
My first script was trash. It was long; around 230 pages or so. I was too detailed, too all over the place and I didnt' have a central story to tell. It was more like the day in the life instead of an actual character journey. I knew it was bad but I was proud of that monstrouscity because I wrote a full feature, with out the guidence of a class or book. I only used a copy of James Cameron's Aliens working script and a copy of the final film as a guide on format. I took it to a playwrite and he helped me focused the story and delete more than half of the garbage. Today I'm extremely proud of what it's turned into. I still have the handwritten pages from the summer of 1996-1997.

Tear*
 
My first script was 78 pages. The script I'm working on now will be 60-80. It's very rare for a writer to have the problem of "underwriting," which is why it's not addressed in hardly any of the books or essays/articles about writing - most talk about how to shorten your script. For me, I don't worry too much about it because I know the guy who's going to direct the first script, and I'm going to direct the second myself. I know that 80 pages from me will play out at closer to 90-100 minutes on the screen, because the conventions I use for writing aren't quite as lengthy on the page as most writers (my action text is concise on paper but will play out at likely more than 1-page-1-minute on the screen).

Obviously, if you're writing for a studio, the studio would be worried by a 75-page script you turn in, but if that's the case, just write the first draft how it is and see where you can expand the story.
 
In my lastest script, final page count was 123. When we shot it last summer we had to cut some things on the fly and ended up with a 2 hours 25 minutes run time. Cut about 27 minutes out before picture lock. And thinking about it, I could have edited about 3-5 more minutes out. It's dialogue heavy drama btw.
 
i tend to underwrite - my scripts are bullet tight! in my fantasy.
I dislike adding filler. I write all the way to 60 pages and if it cant hit 90
TIme to go to a new idea, until 30 pages of a new subplot come to me for that 60 pager.
i dislike taking on extra romance background stuff just to finish a script - but its a often used technique.
Time for a flash back on a lingering kiss staring on the dock of a bay!
 
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