You know fast food is bad for you...

[Jon Starr]

I think one has to factor in (a) the potential medical costs and (b) the potential pain and suffering the eater will cause himself and his family, if he's an over-consumer of fast food (assuming that *any* consumption isn't over-consumption) when comparing the price of a McBurger to that of a chicken breast and head of lettuce. Not to mention the admittedly difficult-to-calculate value of not-feeling-like-sh**-thanks-to-consuming-crap-food that comes with more healthful eating.

Saving some $$$ on the food which you will later have to pay out for insulin, syringes, glucometers, super-fat-circus-tent-sized clothing, rags-on-sticks with which to wash one's self, little scooters to get around on because your knees and back are shot from excess weight carriage, etc, etc, etc is false economy, writ large.

Absolutely - but the problem is we, as humans, think first of the present, and not always of the future.

Actually I haven't always been eating that well, eating out at lunch every day at school or at work, then eating out with friends and my gf a lot, going to the movies a lot and getting those disgusting large popcorns everytime, and unconsciously eating them in their entirety. I'm not overweight, I work out, I have an active job, but I'm 24 and I have borderline blood pressure.

So needless to say I'm trying to put a major stop to this lifestyle. I've stopped with the popcorn, I'm eating at home more and more, or taking with me some home cooked meals (if I need frozen dinners it's those lean cuisines, cause if not those things can kill you in one meal alone). I don't want to f*** up my body especially at such a young age.

I have a feeling if it's this easy for me to become unhealthy, I can't imagine what other people are doing. Look at the salt and fat content in just a single frozen dinner or fast food meal. If people started to pay attention they'd realize what they're putting in.

If I do eat out, it's rarely at a greasy joint (though sometimes I cave). I try for some dagwoods sandwiches (a local franchise, much fresher and healthier and yummier than subways) or some shish taouk (hope it's healthy!).

As I'm learning in my psych class, it's not about the craving (which everyone gets), it's about how much you can control yourself from succumbing to these cravings.

 

[Sad Max]

Supersize Me was more an exercise in seeing what 5000 calories per day might do to someone... surprise! They gain lots of weight. The problem isn't really the big mac, or the cheeseburger by itself. It's the burger + the fries + the soda == too many calories.

I think this misses the point too - the film was not just about calories, or excessive caloric intake contributing to disease: it was about the confluence of a for-profit business model that relied in part upon pushing huge-calorie-content unhealthful meals (and yes, the balance - or imbalance - of fats, sugars, salt etc in those meals is inherently unhealthful) with the kind of promotion that a business like McDonalds relies upon to keep cycling people through their locations.

Because for McDonalds that's where the rubber meets the road: get 'em in the door, get them to walk out as rapidly as possible with as much product as possible, get them back in the door again, repeat, repeat, repeat. There's evidence to suggest that this kind of diet can create habituation similar to the effects of certain drugs. Of course I am not suggesting that fast food should be regulated in the same manner as narcotics but the behavioral-influence angle (advertising plus a potentially habituating product) should not be overlooked.

Again, I am disinterested in the effects upon specific individuals: adults have the right to kill themselves slow and ugly with a side of fries if that's what they wish to do, or merely make themselves grotesque if that's how they choose to live. But there is a societal price to be paid too and as a taxpaying member of that society I'm not entirely sanguine about that.

Regarding Subway - whose salads are, I think, the best I find at fast-food-type places - I don't know about the ones in your area but around here they actually have a chart at the counter that basically says If you want to reduce fat intake, avoid *these* ingredients and eat these; if you want to avoid cholesterol avoid *these* ingredients and eat these; if you want to avoid sodium avoid *these* ingredients and eat these, etcetera.

Why would I get a 6-inch when they are telling me about their 5 dollar foot longs??

Because more <> better. But you knew that.

 

[Rick Meyer]

The Super-Size is not even a value. What you are paying for is more fries and that's it. If you get a super-size, you will get a larger french fry, you usually get a cup with free refills so that's a moot point and the burger stays the same. So, what's the point?

Even before they let the general public pour their own soft-drinks this was the case. They had 4 cup sizes; small, medium, large and of course the extra large super sized cup. Yet, the automated soda dispenser they had behind the counter had 3 sizes. Small, Medium, Large. If you got a Super Sized soda, they'd give you the extra large cup, fill it with more ice, press the LARGE button, set it and forget it. So, yeah. You're paying for fries only.

 

[eleison]

C'mon, don't be a jackass. McDonalds employees were directed to push the super-size meals at the counter (in fact I explicitly mentioned this in the post you reference; maybe junk food is bad for reading-comprehension skills, too...) and of course advertising - while pimping the supposed 'economy' of buying the up-sized portions - wasn't going to be designed to remind consumers how calorie-laden the meals were.

Phelps' caloric intake - or that of any active professional-grade athlete - is a ridiculous thing to point to when we're talking about average consumers who have neither the physical conditioning nor the activity level to healthfully make use of the calories. And the source of the calories (fats vs simple vs complex carbohydrates) is important too; for nutritional purposes not all calories are created equal. Which I suspect is something you actually know.

Or maybe not.

Huhm, I see you have an irrational hatred of McDonalds. I wonder if you also have an irrational hatred of Pie companies, cake companies, bakeries, pizza companies, etc. how about vegatable companies? If you eat too much of them, you'll get sick too

Back to the topic of McDonalds. I go to McDonalds -- probably once a week.. perhaps once a couple of weeks. I dont' really keep track.. I like their blizzards and angus beef burgers. Yuuummm... Just thinking about it makes my mouth water.. All that beef.. on a toasted bum.. with lettuce and tomatoes.. Yummmmm..

Oh, what was I talking about.... Oh, yes, nobody I know eats that many calories a day without knowing that they'll get sick.. Perhaps you know people who are that stupid (after all birds of a feather flock together). I'm pretty healthy and at my idea weight; so is my girlfriend.

So whats the point? You have to be koo koo to think eating a lot of calories is safe.. you also have to be koo koo to think that a movie that shows someone eating a lot of calories getting sick is somehow... amazing.. a revelation.. FOR pete's sake, if you eat a ton of calories more than you should, you're going to get FAT and SICK...

 

[Sad Max]

So whats the point? You have to be koo koo to think eating a lot of calories is safe.. you also have to be koo koo to think that a movie that shows someone eating a lot of calories getting sick is somehow... amazing.. a revelation.. FOR pete's sake, if you eat a ton of calories more than you should, you're going to get FAT and SICK...

That wasn't the point of the movie, at all.

Although if that hasn't registered with you by now, I guess it isn't going to, any time soon.

If you got a Super Sized soda, they'd give you the extra large cup, fill it with more ice, press the LARGE button, set it and forget it.

When I used to eat fast food I'd always tell them no ice in the drink, and fill it up all the way. Stuff's refrigerated in the machine, why does it require ice in addition to having been cooled to just-above-freezing already?

 

[Rick Meyer]

Regarding Subway - whose salads are, I think, the best I find at fast-food-type places - I don't know about the ones in your area but around here they actually have a chart at the counter that basically says If you want to reduce fat intake, avoid *these* ingredients and eat these; if you want to avoid cholesterol avoid *these* ingredients and eat these; if you want to avoid sodium avoid *these* ingredients and eat these, etcetera.

I hope Jarred gets paid what he's worth. Which is a lot. I have to think that he singlehandedly multiplied their business 10 fold by becoming their spokesman. Before he came along, Subway didn't even realize what a cash cow they had on their hands. He presented to them their low-caloric-eating angle all nice and pretty, wrapped with a bow. But, I'm jaded. Every time the topic of Subway comes up I think about Jared and how he's probably making a nice bit of change off the commercials but not really what he's worth. I mean, he's nearly on par with Ronald McDonald, the Cololnel, and that guy wearing the power suit with the clown painted cue ball for a head.

Speaking of Bo Berry Biscuits...I tried these when I was in NC a couple years back. I'd be lying if I said I hated them. Man they are good....

 

[Jordan Scott Price]

Dude.

You're a Major Overthinker. Better learn to stop that or you'll get sucked into deep depression.

Don't think, man. Just do. Sometimes it's healthier to be able to just say poo poo it.

I'm not depressed; food just bores me. I eat for sustenance. Taste and flavor, after all, are a physiological link for sustenance and pleasure.


There was a test done some years ago where different groups of people were put on strict diets, where each group was starved of a certain food group (more specific than just the dated food pyramid). This lasted for a month or so.

When the diet was over, they brought everyone to a giant buffet with tons and tons of food that covered all the food groups. The people that were starved of, say, fruit, went immediately for, yep, fruit. And, of course, they said it was the best tasting fruit of their lives!


And to your comment, what I meant by 'routine' was a 'healthy routine.' I mean I don't add a lot of new things, or change what I eat, because I don't like having to consider the pros and cons about the addition/change. Doesn't mean I don't eat things that are bad for you, but I don't get into a habit of it.

The other day, I was editing at school for 8 hours. I have almost an hour commute from school to home, so I stopped at Jack in the Box because I was so tired and hungry that a pile of sand with vanilla icing would have been appealing. I figured - one hamburger, every 4 months, that's OK. I do make exceptions, I just avoid habitually unhealthy eating.

 

[Sad Max]

Well, on the bright side you're in no danger of falling into the Deadly Sin of Gluttony...

I stopped at Jack in the Box because I was so tired and hungry that a pile of sand with vanilla icing would have been appealing

Then I guess you stopped at the right place.

 

[Postmaster]

LOL!

No offense here (and I know I will get some serious flak for this):

1. Chicken breast with salad is considered "healthy"
You know how those chicken are raised, with all those fast grow hormones, artificial food, made out of idontknowwhat and all that antibiotics? All that stuff stays in the meat when you eat it. Can´t see any difference to a hamburger paddy.

Salad is about as healthy as a Cleanex dipped in mineral water, but polluted with nitrate and other chemicals.

2. A standard McDonalds Hamburger contains

12 g protein
9 g fat
31 g carbohydrates

Which is a bit much of carbs in my book, but in perfect accordance with the most (even conservative) nutrition recommendations for a balanced diet.

The chicken, by the way has

14.g Protein
16 g fat
40 g carbohydrates

Even a small bag of fries has less fat than that chicken.

A Mac Snack Wrap has even more fat. 19 g.

http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutritionfacts.pdf

So what´s so bad about that burger?

The beef?

100% Beef Patty:
100% pure USDA inspected beef; no fillers, no extenders.
Prepared with grill seasoning (salt, black pepper).

probably not.

The bun?

Regular Bun:
Enriched flour (bleached wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid, enzymes), water, high fructose corn syrup,
sugar, yeast, soybean oil and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil, contains 2% or less of the following: salt, calcium sulfate, calcium carbonate, wheat gluten,
ammonium sulfate, ammonium chloride, dough conditioners (sodium stearoyl lactylate, datem, ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, mono- and diglycerides, ethoxylated
monoglycerides, monocalcium phosphate, enzymes, guar gum, calcium peroxide, soy flour), calcium propionate and sodium propionate (preservatives), soy lecithin

Lot´s of stuff in that bun, but nothing special or unusual compared to other buns.

What´s left?

Ketchup, Mustard, Pickle Slices, Onions

No, wait. There is no Ketchup, Mustard, Pickle Slices, Onions on that ever lasting burger.

That´s the dirty little trick of this "art project" of Sally Davies.

If she had all that stuff on the burger it would be eaten by mold within days.

If you leave a piece of bread out on the counter, it will NOT get moldy, unless you have extremely high humidity. Unless you have a high moisture food, like a tomato, it will DRY OUT just like this food did. Bread gets moldy when left IN THE BAG where it retains the moisture. On the counter it quickly becomes stale and dries out, eliminating the possibility of mold.
Fries and burgers don't have much moisture, and the thin patties will dry out very quickly.

Big deal.

If your home made burger, that you made from fresh ground beef decomposes in 5 days, it´s probably not because it is so healthy, but because it is pre-contaminated with all sorts of bacteria and spores. Most butchers and home kitchens aren't as clean and sterile as a professional meat factory, where everyone wears rubber gloves, special hoods, masks and funny coveralls.

Diabetes and adiposity comes much more from Cortisol, a steroid hormone produced by the adrenal gland. It is released in response to stress, anger, depression, despair, distress, pressure on the job, family or relationship, death of a loved one andwhatnot. Its primary functions are to increase blood sugar. Cortisol adds much more pounds on your belly than anything you can eat in your whole live.

Although cortisol secretion in response to stress is a natural function, prolonged cortisol secretion due to chronic stress could result in significant physiological changes.


Cortisol counteracts insulin (you get diabetes)
Cortisol stimulates gastric acid secretion (makes you hungry)
Cortisol also acts as an anti-diuretic hormone. (you get loaded with water)
Cortisol can weaken the activity of the immune system.
It lowers bone formation thus favoring development of osteoporosis in the long term.
Long-term exposure to cortisol results in damage to cells in the hippocampus. This damage results in impaired learning.
It increases blood pressure

Isn't all that something we associate with chips eating couch potatoes?
And all we do is tell them to eat "right" and do some aerobics?

If it would be that easy....

It´s a typical religious thing to tell people that asceticism and mortification is the only true way to salvation. Especially when we can not solve the real problem.


my ct.2 Frank

phew - I need a cheeseburger now.

 

[milksac]

...the behavioral-influence angle (advertising plus a potentially habituating product) should not be overlooked.

Are we talking about fast food or alcohol and tobacco?
Are over eaters that indulge in fast food differrent from alcoholics or chain smokers?
Was Orson Welles grotesque or brilliant?

 

[Sad Max]

Was Orson Welles grotesque or brilliant?

Both. I can't imagine why anyone familiar with the man or his work would frame it as a binary solution set.

 

[milksac]

Fair enough point.

there is a societal price to be paid too and as a taxpaying member of that society I'm not entirely sanguine about that.

Gixen the tax burden on society I'm guessing you're not all that thrilled with anybody that smokes or drinks either.

 

[Sad Max]

Not particularly. Although to the degree there's a bright side, one can argue that substance abusers on average may truncate their life expectancies to the point where elevated draw upon resources is effectively canceled by shortened duration of draw.

 

[Jordan Scott Price]

If there's anything quotable in your post, Frank, it's the fact that food and consumption are as much related to the mind as are one's thoughts. I'm not just talking about comfort food, binge eating, or the inverses.

Those who practice a lifestyle that demands more of them than they can give - which engenders what we typically call stress - will see psychosomatic results. If you eat relatively healthily with a balanced diet, you can still gain weight, you can still have enormous trouble losing weight, and so on because your body's natural processes, in this case digestion, have been inhibited by an outside negative stimulus.

In short: Stress and other factors can cause problems, slipping into any of the processes your body undertakes without your volunteering. I see this in the people I know very well, where even if they work out consistently, even if they eat appropriately, they still gain weight because of the compounding pressures of their jobs.

I'm not a doctor, so I don't feel qualified to orate on what biochemical processes and hormones and juices are affected by what you eat, but I can comment from observation. I'm not a mind-body guru, but I can say without a doubt that both the mind and body are affected by diet and deeply connected. You can eat McDonald's and be healthy, if your body isn't under assault from the troubles your mind can't deal with and is forcing on the body. You can eat healthily, and still be unhealthy.

 

[Rick Burnett]

I'm sorry, but at 2:30am in the morning, after a night of drinking, there is nothing I like more than to have our designated driver pull through an all night McD or Cook-Out and enjoy a crappy hamburger! Hehe.

Carrot sticks just don't do it.

(And I do this like once a year if that!)

 

[Rick Meyer]

You can eat McDonald's and be healthy, if your body isn't under assault from the troubles your mind can't deal with and is forcing on the body. You can eat healthily, and still be unhealthy.

I understand the bulk of your message; that the mind and one's emotional state is a big contributing factor to one's overall health. However, I think you might have overstated your point by saying you can eat McDonald's and be healthy. If you mean, eat McDonald's on occasion, then yes, your body will work it out. But if McDonald's or fast food in general are your primary sources for food, then no. You cannot eat that and be healthy. It's not just just the salts, fats and calories in that food that makes it so detrimental. It's the chemicals and preservatives.

This country is the fattest country in the world for a reason. Commercialism and culture play a big part; we are used to every town having big colorful signs of the most popular fast food joints; they are glitzy, fun and they are certainly easy. I remember being a kid and sitting in the back of a station wagon. Second only to a Santa Claus sighting was the elation I'd feel when I'd see a towering red and white rotating bucket of chicken in the town we were approaching.

Many would rather stay in the car and drive through a burger joint than get out of their car and walk to a salad bar. I have to believe that the U.S. has the highest per capita of Fast Food places and Supermarkets in the world. We are starting to see the 'Food Stand' crop up. But few can and bother to use a local farmers market as their primary source for food. But all of this boils down to choice. We have plenty of choices and many make the wrong ones on a daily basis. And just because we can choose to go to McDonald's or NOT go to McDonald's does not mean they don't have a responsibility to be accurate in their portrayal of their products. The general public sees a commercial that says, "Hostess Muffins are only 150 calaries" and many will believe that it's actually nutrititious and add it to the daily diet. It's junk food plain and simple. So, don't pee down the back of the public and tell them it's raining, that's all.

Now your point, that stress causes people to make poor choices is valid. But, I still think that 99% of the time, stress=unhealthy lifestyle=excuses.

 

[Jordan_S]

Not particularly. Although to the degree there's a bright side, one can argue that substance abusers on average may truncate their life expectancies to the point where elevated draw upon resources is effectively canceled by shortened duration of draw.

To wit, Quick Draw McGraw only lasted three seasons.

 

[Sad Max]

Those who practice a lifestyle that demands more of them than they can give - which engenders what we typically call stress - will see psychosomatic results. If you eat relatively healthily with a balanced diet, you can still gain weight, you can still have enormous trouble losing weight, and so on because your body's natural processes, in this case digestion, have been inhibited by an outside negative stimulus.

In short: Stress and other factors can cause problems, slipping into any of the processes your body undertakes without your volunteering. I see this in the people I know very well, where even if they work out consistently, even if they eat appropriately, they still gain weight because of the compounding pressures of their jobs.

I think that how one handles stress (which comes in at least two flavors, eustress and distress, that is, positive and negative stressors) is more important than simply the degree to which one is under stress. If you are effective in containing and resolving distress - which is a learned skill - you will suffer less harm than someone in the same position who, well, goes to pieces so fast that bystanders get wounded by shrapnel.

And - I'm sorry - while corticosteroid synthesis and metabolism are indeed linked to emotional stresses, if you eat a suitable diet and get adequate exercise you will be doing a great deal to ameliorate those stresses and as a matter of simple physiology (unless you have one of a number of extremely rare metabolic disorders) what weight you gain from the process will be muscle. Being stressed out does not exempt your body from basic chemistry, or physics; if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose mass.

 

[Postmaster]

But if McDonald's or fast food in general are your primary sources for food, then no. You cannot eat that and be healthy. It's not just just the salts, fats and calories in that food that makes it so detrimental. It's the chemicals and preservatives.

Unless you eat from your own garden only - this stuff is in everything you eat.

But what exactly is "junkfood" or " fastfood" anyway?

Most people consider McDonalds junkfood - would you say that Subways is any better? If you do, why? Just because they tell you so in their advertising?

What if you make your own sandwiches at home? Is this less junkfood than McDonalds or Subways?

I mean let´s face it. Your bread at home comes from the same kind of factories and even if you have a small local bakery, they use the same enriched flour and stuff with the same chemicals in it.

This also goes for your ham, bacon, salad, pickles, mayonnaise andwhatnot.

So what is junkfood and why? I mean, how do you classify that?

Frank

 

[Sad Max]

Unless you eat from your own garden only - this stuff is in everything you eat.

This is a patently false statement. Even chain grocery-store fruits and vegetables as well as unprepared meats do not contain the same kind of adulterants in quality or quantity present in most pre-prepared/fast-food offerings.

But what exactly is "junkfood" or " fastfood" anyway?

I don't think people use the terms interchangeably although of course some fast food items could be described as junk food.

"Junk food" is - so far as I know - colloquially taken to mean processed foods whose fat/sugar content makes up most of its caloric value, adulterated with volumizers, preservatives, hydrogenated or transfats and artificial flavorants. Chips, candy bars, sodas, sweet baked goods, etc.

"Fast food" is a bit more specific: the type of offerings you find at a fixed-menu counter-service chain like McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Carl's Junior, etc. It's more descriptive of the customer-service model than it is of any specific menu item, but the business model obviously lends itself better to some kinds of food than others.

Most people consider McDonalds junkfood -

Not everything on their menu is what I would describe as junk food. They do have some items like salads, fruit cups etc that don't fit the standard. But yes, the foods for which they are known frequently qualify.

would you say that Subways is any better? If you do, why? Just because they tell you so in their advertising?

Because you have a wider variety of choices as to what you get at the counter at Subway, and you have the option to tweak the sandwich you're eating to suit your fat/sodium/etc requirements. Subway certainly offers some ingredients that make for comparatively unhealthful eating but they are easily avoided (they post a chart at the counter to help you do it). Plus, Subway does not base its advertising around food sold by-the-pound, like those 700-800 calorie monster piles of ground cow on a bun that McDonalds has been pimping, lately...and any sandwich on the Subway menu can be ordered as a salad instead (not that I think many people would want a Philly Cheese Steak salad, but then again if you're eating a Philly Cheese Steak putting it on a bed of lettuce is a band-aid on a sucking chest wound, anyway).

What if you make your own sandwiches at home? Is this less junkfood than McDonalds or Subways?

It depends entirely upon what ingredients you use. I should think that would be obvious.

I mean let´s face it. Your bread at home comes from the same kind of factories and even if you have a small local bakery, they use the same enriched flour and stuff with the same chemicals in it.

Speak for yourself. We have innumerable local bakeries around here that certainly do not use the same stabilizers, preservatives and fillers used by mass factory bakeries. And - while it's not for everybody - if you really want to control what's in your bread, baking your own is very easy and (excluding the value of your time) cheaper, too.

This also goes for your ham, bacon, salad, pickles, mayonnaise andwhatnot.

Also false. I don't what leads you to conclude that there are not food producers offering comparatively un-molested products. Maybe it's not a widespread thing in Germany but it's increasingly common, here.

So what is junkfood and why? I mean, how do you classify that?

Processed food deriving the majority of its caloric value from sugars and fats, is what I'd propose as a basic definition. Maybe the definition should also include the use of stabilizers, volumizing gums, transfats, hydrogenated fats, or really any ingredient that is not recognizable as an edible foodstuff, by itself.