Yes, the same rookie " what do I need" questions.

S

SoundMonger

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i've started to do audio for a couple of web productions, and have been asked to help with a Doc. in the beginning of next year. So it's time to start assembling a starter kit. I don't want to go over board but I don't want to buy throw away crap ether. i have spent hours trying to come up with what I feel is a good game plan for a first year or so of working (hopefully). So, if I can toss out some ideas I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Right now all I own is a pair of Oktava 012 with three capsules. So I can use the hyper caps indoor,right? I've read that they are very susceptible to handling noise anything that I can do to improve this? Besides learning how to handle a boom properly? Any suggestions for a good shock mount and wind screen for indoor use? I have shock mounts for stationary on stand use. But that can't work because I already own them.

I'll need a recorder, I'm thinking of ether a Tascam DR 100 MKii or a DR 680. For me the obvious bits is deciding on smaller vs more channels ( which at this time I don't think i'd need) but you pros would know much better. All thing being the same will I get the same quality? Are the pre the same, and the A/Ds? I've not found a direct comparison. Mid term I'd buy a second hand SD mic pre or mic pre d. I want to start making a little bit of money before investing in that.

As far as a shot gun mic I'm thinking a Rode NGT 3 and blimp kit (used would be better.) is there anything out there that would give me good enough sound for low budget stuff while I get my chops together that would save me money. If I buy used I should be able to resale and not eat to much cash in a year or so.

Boom poles, any good budget suggestions?

I can't afford wireless lavs, so I would pick up a pair of Rode lav kits when needed. Any way to save on this with out thawing money away? Does this make sense?

I do have headphones and cables and I think a bag I can make work short term.

I'm guessing I'll need to drop 1.5k-2k to get started like this. Does this seem reasonable? And I did buy a couple of books who knows if they will help . I don't think it will hurt.

Thanks in advance
SM
 
No substitute for actual experience no matter what gear you have.
How do you plan the sync the systems? In many doc situations, a clap slate is not an option.
Wireless lavs are almost a 'must have' these days. Battery power to run the gear is also a huge issue. Multi-track recorders like the 680 would almost certainly need a external battery system. Other than that, the NTG-3 is a nice mic.
 
Rick R said:
No substitute for actual experience no matter what gear you have.


How do you plan the sync the systems? In many doc situations, a clap slate is not an option.
Wireless lavs are almost a 'must have' these days.
Battery power to run the gear is also a huge issue. Multi-track recorders like the 680 would almost certainly need a external battery system.
Other than that, the NTG-3 is a nice mic.
Click to expand...

Yes!! Thats why I want to start as small as makes sense and still get the job done as right as a FNG can.

I'd like wireless but can't justify the cost right now. IS it better to have no Lavs at all than wired Lav?

It will be synced in post. Shot with Cannon DSLR (I don't know model).

Rechargeable for now. Cheaper and lighter for now.

I just want to get the job done and learn a lot along the way.

These first gigs are free so I don't /won't drop a whole lot of money at it.
 
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The best (for the price) booms and shock mounts are by K-Tek. Standard suggestion for the Octava mics is the KSSM mount with soft bands. It tames the handling noise nicely. In a pinch you could certainly use the Octavas outside with a good blimp or windscreen, but not when it's windy. With the Octavas, you already have the best mic a couple hundred can buy, so I would concentrate on the situations they can't handle and buy accordingly.
 
I was watching a video on the Rode Blimp The guy who did the video (Matt I think) Said the Rode Blimp would work with the 012 . Would this be as good as the KSSM?

Also it looks like the DR 100 MKII and DR 680 have been discontinued. A lot of sellers still have them but a number have them listed as discontinued. I could not find any info on replacement models.
 
When you say documentary audio, you will likely be working out of a bag, so how your gear works with a bag is important. The DR100 and most other similar sized recorders won't work with a bag very well at all. You mentioned a DR680, which is a very decent but cheaper recorder that will work ok as will the Tascam HD-P2. I'm sure there are others. The gold standard of audio for video is anything built by Sound Design and it is very common in pro environments.

A mixer should be in your near term future vision. Riding levels on set, on low end recorders, is not ideal.

Also, if you are working out of a bag, with a bag style of recorder, you should also be considering remote power. The DR680 eats batteries at an alarming rate. Others aren't much better.

Your Oktavas along with an NTG-3 will take you quite a ways. Foam covers for the Oktavas are a minimum if booming; a BBG by Rycote is better. Rode makes the WS-7, a slip on wind cover for the NTG-3, which is very serviceable. But in a breeze, you'll want the full blimp. Again, Rode make a very decent blimp with good suspension for not to much.

Carbon fiber poles are awesome, but if your takes are shorter, aluminum will get you by just fine, think K-Tek Avalon. For mounts, I really like the K-Tek KSSM types, not because they offer better isolation than the lyre style, but they are exceedingly compact and durable and parts can be easily obtained. You can get longer ones for shotguns and shorties for the Oktavas.

Grant
 
Thanks everyone. i know the SD's are the pro choice, but I'm no pro as of now. So I just can't justify the cost any time soon. good to know that an aluminum pole is ok. Looks like CF is twice the price. DVE looks like they have a good deal on the NTG-3, blimp K-tek pole etc. So I'll most likely go that route.
 
"I'd like wireless but can't justify the cost right now. IS it better to have no Lavs at all than wired Lav?"
> A hard-wired lav is better than wireless. No RF or compander issues with a wire.. but if the wearer needs to be mobile, which is frequently the case, that's another story. Many folks have XLR Phantom Power supply adapter/module, so the same mic can used with a cable or transmitter.
 
BTW neither B&H or Tascam list either as "discontinued". I suspect that either it's a marketing ploy or that particular supplier is going to stop carrying them for some reason.

I use 012's out doors in a zep all the time. And in big wind situations. A zep.and a dead cat and it can handle a lot.
As a general rule for the Oktava's though I roll off at 80 for just about everything.

There are some shotguns that are a bit cheaper that are also well liked but you will need a zeppelin probably for Doc. work (you just never know ahead so I would assume to be safe. So you may be able to get a package deal with Rode. THey seem to offer a zep+mic deal periodically.

Also depending on your recorder/ preamp you may find the NTG1 (2) aceptable. I only used it once and was expecting a lot of noise and other low cost shotgun issues but it sounded fine. Worked well indoors (in a pretty dead room) and was pretty quiet. I did run it through a MixPre so?

I will say that a decent preamp or mixer will last a LONG time and work with your new equipment when you upgrade. A handheld recorder like the DR100 is a LOT more useable if you have a MixPre in front of it.

New I would bite the bullet and get the MixPre-D (or one of their mixers) but I have seen MixPre's (original) sold used for $300 or so and that would move it way up my list if I were you.

Another handheld option is the DR-40. BUT as stated earlier handhelds mostly suck for in the bag work. The catch is the number of bag friendly recorders in the "cheap" range has shrunk a lot.

The old PMD-671 works well in the bag and gets around 4 -5 hours on rechargeable batteries. The HD-P2 I believe gets decent battery life but it's more than the 680, strangely enough. The Fostex FR2 is still around. I never liked it much but... Right around there though you are getting into the SD recorder range...

My experience is that in the Mic/preamp/recorder trifecta the preamp made the biggest difference (assuming the others were not really crappy). An OK mic through a great mic pre sounds better than a great mic through a OK preamp. Also a good or better preamp going in line to a recorder makes the recorder sound better than it should. I have a $50 MiniDisk recorder that sounds "fine" when fed with the MixPre. "Fine" = everyone though I had recorded to DAT.
 
It was Sweetwater, DVE and a third place but I don't remember who. DVE looks like they are just not going to handle Tascam anymore the whole line is no more.

Is there a sound quality deference between the 100 mkII and the 680 or just a feature set? Also I tried to find any reviews comparing the NGT-1 and AT875r anyone have any experience with both. I know they are not as good as the NTG 3 but maybe it would hold me over until I get more experience and paid work. It sounds like a 100MKII and mic pre is a smarter way to go than the 680. If I need more channels I could use protools or my DP-24.

Thanks again for all the advice
SM
 
ProTools is NOT good for production sound. If you are going to use a computer, well Mac anyway, you want to use BoomRecorder. MUCH better at production work and stable as a rock.

The 680 in my book only has one point against it and that is battery life.
With the PMD671 and the MixPre I get about 5 hours out of each on a set of batteries. So two sets of rechargeables covers one of my of
days, worst case. A also cary Alkaline, just in case.

The DR-40 gets about the same life. The 680 is reported to get a lot less and that would be a drag. Three sets of batteries is not bad but carying much more starts feeling like "old school".

A Nagra required 12 D cels. And I think you only got a 1/2 day out of those so...
 
680 comments:

The 680 has a plasticky feel to it, somewhat less than robust, but so far, has performed well for me protected in a bag.

I solved my power issues with a Tekkeon battery, works good for me. The power input plug isn't too secure, so figure some kludge to secure it like Velcro or tape.

Compared to the dr100, the preamps in the 680 are much stronger which reduces the need for a mixer, except you still want a mixer for all the other things a mixer does. I find I can field mix two channels fairly well, but more than that gets too weird.

My biggest gripe for mixing isn't the button scheme, but the small and limited scale led display.

Grant
 
I used a 680 on a 64-day movie shoot shoot last summer.. very few issues. It does have some design quirks one has to get used to and work around. It's not very robust (plastic), so I put it in a Petrol bag/case and also used an external battery system. I wired up right-angle power plug/cable and gaffer taped it for further security. If by chance external power is lost, it switches to internal batteries glitch-free. I used external preamps for the boom(s) and the wireless receivers were set to line level to avoid the low-budget preamps.
 
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