XLR Zoom Recording Question

S

stripdshirt

Member
Hoping someone can help me, I'm currently looking for ways to get better audio and shorten my time in post. I'm a wedding cinematographer and during the reception we record the speeches from the DJ. My current setup right now consists of a Zoom H4N running an XLR from the line out on from the back of their speaker directly into the recorder.

I know this isn't the best practice and running into the board is what I should be doing, but I have been burned way too many times by many DJ's who have decided to listen to music in their headphones, or turning off the level to my zoom completely so I have nothing. The back of the speaker has been the only way I've been able to bypass inexperienced DJ's.

Where my problem comes in is what I would describe as a white noise or hiss in the background. (I can supply an audio sample if needed)

Is there a device like a noise filter or pre-amp (not sure which one) that I can put between the speaker and the Zoom to remove this noise so I don't spend time having to remove in post?

Thanks in advance!
 
I guess you mean this particular DJ is using powered speakers, and you're using the xlr out? If the hiss is bad, it's probable that he just set the gain structure for the past ten pm lurch up to ear shattering distortion point, that all these people do. So your speeches are coming from the fader down very low point. On H&S meters, the speeches hardly register, and it's unrealistic to get home to adjust his entire setup to get output noise down and mic gains up. It isn't how they work. This system also falls over for you when you are faced with a DJ system that has conventional non balanced outputs you can use, but the gain problem usually remains. You cannot trust DJs to pay you any attention. The only solution is your own mics. You could invest in a splitter system, where you plug all the mics into the splitter, then the DJ gets one output you get the other, but to remove the splitter when you leave, you still have to worry about the DJ, as you can't pull your splitters out without at least making sure he has the gains down, or there are nasty pops. Trusting somebody else is a big leap of faith, and never trouble free. The majority of DJs also have no idea about setting gain stages, so the noise issue is common. Removing hiss later always causes problems unless you have some restoration software. Sony sound forge has a reasonable hiss reducer, but it still impacts on the sound if the hiss is too loud.
 
Yes these were the items I was looking at I didn't know what would help me.

EBTech Hum Eliminator (Another DJ told me to look into this) But it isnt really a Hum I get

JuicedLink - Or something similar

XLR Line Attenuator - Someone also mentioned this

Really just confused on which direction to go. I don't want to buy equipment I dont need or that wont rectify my problem.

Thanks
 
Is there any chance the audio board has RCA Tape Outs on it ? ( lots of boards have these, and they are often never used )

If it does, then you should be able to get good signal that your Zoom recorder can handle via this connection.
 
TheDingo said:
Is there any chance the audio board has RCA Tape Outs on it ? ( lots of boards have these, and they are often never used )

If it does, then you should be able to get good signal that your Zoom recorder can handle via this connection.
Click to expand...

Yeah the problem is the DJ dropping out my level or listening to his music on his headphones which ends up coming through on my end.
 
He did say the line out on the back of the speaker. Loads of people now use active speakers, because they save the hassle of amp racks - and the speakers have XLR in (at line or mic level) and then a loop through to the next one (or a sub). Even cheap passive speakers have speakons nowadays, and I've not seen a 3 pin XLR at speaker level for quite a few years now. He also said he'd done it - so if it was an older PA with a real speaker level output, the zoom would be a pile of junk now. In fact, when people have the gain structure right, taking a feed from the speaker is now a very simple process - most running at +4dB level, which unless the system has all the red lights on, goes into a camera XLR set to line perfectly well.

The hiss is not that uncommon - most systems have a low level hiss when you stand next to the speaker when it's not running. It sometimes does sound quite loud, in the quiet room, but when you remember that to stand there when it's running at show level, will hurt - that hiss is very low. The problem comes from just pushing a mic fader up for a speech - and it just doesn't score on the volume state.
 
Oops sorry didn't scan the line out part so ignore my previous post!

The hiss is probably due to the mixer not being driven enough to help the signal to noise ratio, this is quite common on PA systems as they tend to drive the inputs to suit the output levels from the amp.
 
So please tell me if this would be the correct setup and if this would correct my problem and work for me.

XLR out of speaker to Juicedlink Riggy (Unless someone can give me a better suggesstion on a better priced pre-amp). Juicedlink Riggy to Zoom H4N.

Settings on Juicedlink would be Gain High. Zoom H4N turned down audio levels and control my audio levels through the Juicedlink.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but I could run a splitter off the XLR out of the speaker to the preamp and run one level a little higher than another to give me some redundancy incase the levels spike.
 
IMHO, no gadget is going to get rid of that hiss. The problem is likely fundamental in the DJ's equipment and operation. Casual reinforcement systems like wedding reception DJ setups can get away with sub-par signal-to-noise ratios because of the high noise level in the room. But if you listen closely (as you are doing by recording the speaker-feed signal) you will hear the shortcomings of the DJ's system. If you really want to fix the problem, you will need to work (offline) with the DJ to improve his system and operational habits. Or else arrange to grab "splits" from the inputs (i.e. from the microphones) and run your own mixer, etc. But that seems too complex for budget wedding videography. Doesn't music and/or audience reaction cover the background hiss in the mix?
 
Richard Crowley said:
Doesn't music and/or audience reaction cover the background hiss in the mix?
Click to expand...

Yes it does, but I also give them the speech without an music audio track. I also use a lot of the speeches as VO's so I like them to be as clean as possible when I drop the music level down. I've used soundsoap to try and rectify the situation but IMO it's very noticeable and takes more time.
 
Since you are basically talking about the same kind of sound as tape hiss there are two ways that you should be able to remove it with pretty good results. The better is probably to run a good noise reducer like Rx on it after you record it. But thee are some boxes that will work quite well on that type of noise. Behringer used to make a box that was used a lot in film post facilities. It was probably ripped off from, excuse me inspired by, a DBX unit that is going on eBay for $100

THese worked great on hiss, but not much else which is probably why digital recording pretty much killed them. I have a two channel and I believe an eight channel Behringer version if eBay doesn't happen and your interested.
 
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