XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

M

monster

Well-known member
What is the best XLR adapter that has phantom power? Also do you guys really think it degrades audio quality to use an XLR adapter instead of having in-camera XLR inputs?

If I am using an on camera mic and the cable is short I can just just an XLR to mini jack adapter and it works just as good as an XLR, correct? Or does the adapter make the sound better?

I found this and was wondering if it is really good.

http://www.studio1productions.com/xlr-bp_pro.htm
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

If the mic is not Phantom Powered you can, otherwise you'll need an adapter box. Look no further, what you need is a DXA.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

Why have a XLR adapter to DVX ???
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

[quote author=phd link=board=audio;num=1094675406;start=0#2 date=09/08/04 at 14:11:07]Why have a XLR adapter to DVX  ???[/quote]

I have a DVX100A. Obviously I would not used an adapter on my DVX.

Could someone help me out on the questions in my original post.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

I'm waiting for the audio specialists to weigh in on this. Basically no camera below the DVX really has an audio system that's worthy of using XLR pro mic's with... they use 1/8" minijack unbalanced audio connectors, etc. So while you could technically use one of these boxes to connect to one of those cameras, it's kind of like putting $1,000 Pirelli tires on a volkswagen minibus... it ain't gonna help much... ;)
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

I've got a Sony Mz-r37 that I've wanted to use as a field recorder on occasion... and it's mini-jack in only... Well I tried a bunch of mini-jack mics and so far I've hated them all. So my Mz-r37 sits... pristine and new... yet getting old. I wouldn't mind hearing if anybody knows of a decent adapter type thingy (besides the Beach DXA6 or 8)... I've seen phantom boxes for $50... but I don't know if they're really any good.

I love audio, but I wouldn't really define myself as an expert yet... more of a constant experimenter.

So yeah audio experts... what IS the answer here? Should I ebay my Mz-r37 or can you help us out on this?
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=audio;num=1094675406;start=0#4 date=09/08/04 at 14:46:41]I'm waiting for the audio specialists to weigh in on this.  Basically no camera below the DVX really has an audio system that's worthy of using XLR pro mic's with... they use 1/8" minijack unbalanced audio connectors, etc.  So while you could technically use one of these boxes to connect to one of those cameras, it's kind of like putting $1,000 Pirelli tires on a volkswagen minibus... it ain't gonna help much...  ;)[/quote]

So is there less sensitivity and more noise when going through an XLR adapter?
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

The XLR adapter itself isn't the problem, although it could be if it's cheaply designed.  The problem is that cameras that are designed around a 1/8" unbalanced minijack are rarely "heavyweights" in the audio department... if they had professional pre-amps and high quality signal-to-noise ratio and low noise floors and etc., they'd darn sure have something better than a 1/8" minijack to connect with.

So you might get clean sound going into the adapter box, but the camera won't be able to do much with it.  Jay Rose did an exhaustive test on DV camera audio and found them all sorely lacking, up until the DVX came out.

Putting an expensive, high-quality mic into an expensive, high-quality XLR adapter box, and then running that into a minijack camcorder audio input circuit is basically akin to putting expensive, high-quality racing fuel in a Ford Pinto... it isn't going to make much difference.

But again, what did you want to use the adapter box with? Matt brings up an interesting point, which is of course that a small minidisc recorder isn't going to have an XLR jack... the minidisc is designed for small size, and XLR jacks would be unwieldly huge on one... but the minidisc recorder is probably optimized to provide pretty good sound anyway.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

Just to answer your original question Monster, I used a Studio 1 XLR adapter for several years on a VX 1000 and shot hundreds of interviews with it. Never had any problems, and it allowed me to use better mics than I could have used otherwise. Now that I use the 100a, that other equipment has been long been sold. If you need an XLR adapter for any reason, I highly recommend the Studio 1 adapter. (and the people there are great to work with too) ;)
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

[quote author=JBN link=board=audio;num=1094675406;start=0#8 date=09/09/04 at 21:57:57]Just to answer your original question Monster, I used a Studio 1 XLR adapter for several years on a VX 1000 and shot hundreds of interviews with it.  Never had any problems, and it allowed me to use better mics than I could have used otherwise.  Now that I use the 100a, that other equipment has been long been sold.  If you need an XLR adapter for any reason, I highly recommend the Studio 1 adapter.  (and the people there are great to work with too)  ;)[/quote]

Yeah but no Phantom power.  Is there any good mic that uses battery power?  I sold my Senheiser ME series because I don't like the way they sound.  I talked to the guy at Studio One today and he sounded surprised that I wanted to use better mics than the ME series.  He did not have any XLR adapter that had phantom power.

I see that  Beachtek has the "ultimate adapter"
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa8.html

Is that Beachtek any good or is it too noisy?  The guy at Studio one told me that the Beachteks have have a high insertion loss.

I also found this webpage where they author talks about mounting a sound devices Mix Pre to the bottom of his camera.
Bottom of page:
http://www.gregjwinter.com/FAQ_Page.htm

Anybody have any comments about mounting a mix pre to the bottom of a camera or just wearing it on your belt and using it with a non-xlr camera like the VX2100?

It seems the crowd that uses XLR adapters tend to use lower quality mics and they report that they "sound great".  My concern is that if they think the ME series sound good then the XLR adapters might not be "good" by my standards.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

If you can spend the cash a DXA6 has the adapter and phantom... it's $249... for another hundred you can get the DXA8 and you'll have GAIN AND LIMITING.

That guy you've been talking to doesn't know what's what. The Beachteks are NOT noisy. The only reason I didn't suggest one of them FIRST is only because of cost.

I had a DXA6 prior to the DVX and it works perfectly and sounds good.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

[quote author=Matt in STL link=board=audio;num=1094675406;start=0#11 date=09/10/04 at 06:38:33]If you can spend the cash a DXA6 has the adapter and phantom... it's $249... for another hundred you can get the DXA8 and you'll have GAIN AND LIMITING.

That guy you've been talking to doesn't know what's what. The Beachteks are NOT noisy. The only reason I didn't suggest one of them FIRST is only because of cost.

I had a DXA6 prior to the DVX and it works perfectly and sounds good.[/quote]

He did not say the Beachteks are noisy. He said they have a big insertion loss.

Oleg: thanks for that link, I had no idea Schoeps had a battery powered module.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

Is there such a thing as XLR wireless? The question must be stupid but I was wondering if those wireless mic systems that's usually used for weddings... if those were ever used to do a feature to get shots where booms couldn't go...

good to know that DVX has true XLR.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

Okay, I guess I'm not as bright as I thought I was... what's an "insertion loss"?

The DXA8 has gain... so does it provide "insertion gain"?

Also you could set your DVX to -60db and you would way more then offset any insertion loss.

At this point I think it would be really helpful to know what this is for. I offered a possibility... a minidisc recorder. Here's my experience with THAT.

I used a DXA6 (bought it for a TRV900) with a Mz-r37 minidisc. The mic I was adapting was a Beyerdynamic m58... it's a really WEAK mic if you aren't familiar with it... dynamic with relatively LOW output. The DXA6 provides NO gain and I still got good results with this combo.

So I'm wondering what the insertion loss is? Does this guy actually KNOW or is he trying to sell you an alternate product?
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

I've used the DXA6 a lot and got to say it's very nice. I shot some documentaries with a PD-100 and the beachtek, and shot some stuff for school with a beachtek under a sony TRV-17. The cheaper consumer cam didn't have any audio controls and it's auto levels really get in the way of getting good audio, but with the PD-100 it was a whole different picture.

What I can say aggainst using minijack audio is that be careful in the pluging/unplugging process because the jacks are not very sturdy. That's the biggest problem I had with DXA's, bad contact in the minijacks. Other than that they sound fine. I'm not sure, but I have gotten better audio in a TRV900 with a DXA than using a PD-150...
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

I think that he means that the sound levels go way down. (insertion loss)

Also, Is there any reason why (other than price) I would not just want to go ahad and use a Sound Devices Mix Pre in place of the Beachtek?   The Mix Pre does everthing the Beachtek does and more, right?   Or is there some benefit to using the Beachtek? Can the mix pre send output to a mini jack?
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

In my experience the Beachtek had no problem... even with a dynamic mic... so I don't know about the insertion loss. I've NEVER heard of that before... Sounds to me like another guy who came up with something on his own.

Everytime I go into a video/camera/electronics store, unless I'm talking to a guy who DOES this stuff all the time I don't want his input. In case you haven't noticed, in our hobby everybody wants to sound like they know things others don't. I'd check that guy's sources on that one. I've got a good friend whose in really tight with Beachtek... they give him test units. I'm going to find out about this for certain by this evening.

The Beach with gain/limiting is $400... The SD Mixpre is $650. If you can afford the Mixpre then I'd absolutely, positively 100% go with the Mixpre. You can use the tape out to feed your mini-jack in. Plus it's got the absolute BEST limiting in a unit this size plus a TON of gain.

I'll get a 302 eventually... I've even considered a Mixpre... not to improve the sound of the DVX, but to use with other stuff such as my minidisc... and to give an off-cam headphone out.
 
Re: XLR adapters, the best with phantom power

Okay, here's the skinny on the Beachtek:

"There is a very slight loss and that's due to the matching transformers. The benefit outweighs the very minor loss."

The insertion loss is VERY minor... it would be rediculous to worry about it... BUT, if you can afford the Sound Devices then you're going FIRST CLASS.
 
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