Xl3

Jan_Crittenden said:
But it is still HDV. And that my friend is the problem.
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See, that's something I truely don't get. When Michael Pappas post his honest opinions and criticism about the HVX200, people start to complain, saying he only posts against the HVX, that he should post against others too and etc, etc,etc. Even though he wrote an article pointing the HD100's flaws as well, and I know for a fact that JVC didn't like it. But anayways, at least Michael is a consumer, just like all of us and doesn't represent any company in perticular. He just represents his own interests.
But every new camera which is coming to compete with the HVX , Jan is posting something putting them down. She did with the HD100, she still does with Z1 and now this coment on the "XL3". How come nobody complains about that? Hmmmm.
So, here am I, offically complaining. Please Jan, stop putting other companies products down. It just doesn't look good for somebody in your position. Not meaning to offend or anything. Just a honest and frank request.

Thanks.
 
well its not the cams that are the big problem its the format. No matter how good cam Canon will be making the HDV will limit it.

So she´s completely right, with that HDV is the problem.


For myself, the only way i would be intressted in a Canon XL3 would be if it allowed 1080 at 25P, 720 at 25P and 50P with 100 mbs.
 
You can't blame Jan she sells Panasonic. If Pansonic came out with a HDV came she would promote it. It's her job to sell Panasonic and she does that well.

I have never seen footage from the HVX200 yet. I have never seen footage from a HDV camera like the Sony Z1 either. But I have heard it is very good and I don't think this huge HDV consortium would be dumping a lot of money into HDV if it sucked.

To me the issue is how to transfer and store the video. What it records on? How easy to edit? And of course the price. Panasonic so far on paper and mockups have come up with a pretty nice camera. But by the time it comes out we might have some other choices too. Canon and Sony didn't give up!!

Panasonic's big mistake to me is not having this HVX200 ready to go about a month after NAB.
 
I have a feeling that Panasonic is running as fast as it can. HDX will be a hot cam, so, I'm inclined to hope they take it slow enough to get it right. I bought the DVX100 when it first came out and have loved what it helps me do. The DVX100a has the needed changes to help get more versitility in the cams usage. A good example is the minimum focal length between the two cams, 12 bit A/D vs 8 bit, and squeeze mode. These were good upgrades. I hope the HDX comes out a solid cam that does not need a physical upgrade a year after it is released.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
But it is still HDV. And that my friend is the problem.
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Well, even before Panasonic announced their plans not to do HDV, I disliked the engineering specs on HDV from the beginning. It's very short term, consumer, backwards compatability focused. The only advantage it offers is resolution. Everything else (motion artifacts, compression, audio, frame rate flexibility, NLE system requirements etc. were a step backwards). Plus, I hate tape. Sure it's cheap, but that's about it.

I was pleased when Panny said no to HDV for the pro line (my guess is they will add HDV to the consumer cams at some point). To me, that means their heads are screwed on right.

The VHS/Beta wars are instructive. VHS did not win because it had longer recording time - it won because consumers wanted longer recording times. That may sound like a foolish distinction, but I think it's most important.

Panasonic knows that to consumers, HDV is attractive. To pros, indie and events, we want quality, flexibility, future-proof as possibly, and the most bang for the buck possible. Long recording times and cheap tape are not #1 on most buyers list (i.e. people that actually buy the cameras, not just debate them).

The HVX on paper delivers that in spades, just like the DVX series has. HDV has not. Even if Sony adopts HDV-Pro (which I think is very unlikely - more like is a Sony HDV-IMX thingy), HDV above the consumer and prosumer has too many obstacles and too little time (as other flavs of HD drop quickly in price) to ever be the revolution that DV was.
 
I don't see how she is putting down other companies. She's saying that hdv has a flaw and the fact that Canon is using the flawed technology is going to hurt themselves. Think about the situation in another context and see how ridiculous the accusation sounds. It's like trying to ignore the fact that your child has a disease. Is Jan in the wrong for pointing out the illness? No. You're just angry that she reminded you of it.
 
Jan hasn't trashed Canon or Sony or JVC. She has pointed out the shortcomings of the HDV format, and pointed out that these cameras use that format. What's wrong with that? And she's been more polite and considerate than some of you on this forum.
 
HDV is great and a tremendous stride. DVCProHD has yet to be seen at the small production houses.

There are going to be compairison, but for right now the compairisons are an actual camera (FX1) to a phantom (HVX200). FX1 is the HD king right now for the small/medium production house and until Pano actually releases the HDX with bigger P2 cards or a bigger HDD media solution then FX1 will remain the HD champ.

It's just the way it is right now.
 
stephenlnoe said:
HDV is great and a tremendous stride. DVCProHD has yet to be seen at the small production houses.

There are going to be compairison, but for right now the compairisons are an actual camera (FX1) to a phantom (HVX200). FX1 is the HD king right now for the small/medium production house and until Pano actually releases the HDX with bigger P2 cards or a bigger HDD media solution then FX1 will remain the HD champ.

It's just the way it is right now.
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Many of the production houses that I freelance and consult for are quite aware of DVCPROHD / DVCPRO50's workflow and those who haven't yet used it in some form are eagerly anticipating it. The one common opinion amongst them, is their dislike for HDV.

Perhaps it's just in my circles, but they and I can't believe we'd be happy with mpeg 2 HD acquisition. Especially after seeing some of HDV footage.

My .02 cents.

-CJ
 
Yup. The only thing making the FX1/Z1 'champs' of the HDV world right now is that there's little real alternative. Let the games begin.
 
The point is, that it's being referred to as a "problem". HDV is not a problem, and calling it one is derogatory and uninformative. It's a consumer format that is not meant to be competitive with less-compressed professional formats... and is priced accordingly.
 
Relax Spiff- Jan is a welcome guest here, just like you. You'll not find a fairer and more open product manager out there so let's cut her some slack ok? :)
 
We aint seeing the XL3 for several years. Canon has been delivering 3 years between models and the XL2 was just released. GL3, next year, but no removeable lens. Maybe we will get lucky and during the next 2 years Canon will realize how un-professional HDV is as a format and try to release a 100mbps camera (what codec they would use, I don't know).

It is my belief that the HDV format was developed to sell HD at a consumer level, family/home video type stuff. This was done to help drive the interest in HD technology (HDTV) among consumers (read sell more TVs). While they developed it they realized that they might try and market it as a semi-pro format first and see where that takes them (mini-DV was never intended for pro use when first developed). In a few years, we will see HDV cameras at Best Buy. That is who it was intended for, not professionals. DV compression was a huge hassle to deal with, HDV is a nightmare.

I think Jan making a point in a forum dedicated to HVX is not at all inappropriate. She is not coming in incognito and spreading vicious rumors about the competition (you will see these types of shills in similar forums). HDV (25mbps) and HD (100mbps) are oceans apart in formats and not just one letter. Too many people are doing exactly what the Sony/JVC/Canon consortium wanted and using the two acronyms interchangeably. No harm in Jan pointing this out. :)
 
adaml said:
Jan hasn't trashed Canon or Sony or JVC. She has pointed out the shortcomings of the HDV format, and pointed out that these cameras use that format. What's wrong with that? And she's been more polite and considerate than some of you on this forum.
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I think one should point the shortcomings of his own products before pointing fingers at other people's products. I think saying HDV is a problem is not really pointing out it's not DVCPRO-HD. I'm sorry, but it seems like bashing to me. Pointing fingers at other people is not polite. About cutting some slack, that's what I was saying before, it seems it's not ok to criticize the HVX and Panasonic, but it seems ok to criticize other brands. At least, that's the impression I get.
 
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