Writer's Guild Going on Strike

Looks like SAG cut a deal

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/...eal-rcna118562

And not a moment too soon... I was talking to a union DP who said that many people he knows who work in the camera department have lost their cars and their homes due to the prolonged work stoppage...

If SAG "cut a deal," that sounds something like "gave them a break." Is that what you meant? Because why would you put your membership through 118 days of prolonged unpaid leave, having lost cars and homes to "cut a deal" at the end of it with your adversary? Feeling generous? Somehow, I don't think so. Was watching a news magazine, the guest was asked by the host, "the terms have not been released so what does this settlement mean," to which the guest declaring victory, used glowing terms like, "It's Historic! Billion dollars! Everyone wins! and that actors are protected from AI using their images, likeness." It left me wondering that he had no knowledge of anything that hadn't been speculated, that the deal that was "cut" was with minor modification probably the same offer that had been on the table except for the AI protection, which to that latter point, how many of the rank and file members had legitimate worries about their image or likeness being used by AI? I would say very few. Nice of all those unemployed celebratory strikers, "let's stick it to the man!" to stick up for the rich few elite actors who could have legitimate intellectual property concerns.

I don't think SAG rank and file was served by their union leadership. There was a lot of harm to ordinary working class. In contrast, the much more historically antagonistic United Auto Workers saw their strike come after and end sooner, owing to a more saavy and experienced leadership group behind the negotiations that knew more about how to negotiate benefits for its striking members at the least amount of pain.
 
Good point. SAG-AFTRA will not publish the details until it is reviewed by the national board. Even SAG-AFTRA members do not know what they are celebrating except in general terms as described above. Once published, I will compare the previous contract with the new contract and see what they gained.

I managed to get an interim agreement sample from back in July from the SAG-AFTRA site. I think it was accidentally available as other types of documents of this sort, I am not able to access. It will be interesting to compare the 'ask' of July and compare it to what they actually got.
 
Tom, I don't have time to respond in depth right now but I think the issue with AI is exactly the opposite of what you're describing. Famous actors own their likeness and wiil have a strong hand in any agreement to license it. I think the AI protections they're talking about probably involved limiting what union members are allowed to do cuz starving actors have been giving away their body scan for a measly day rates and it's going to destroy the lower rungs of the acting career ladder including background actors and Extras work etc
 
That could all be true Abe, and I could be wrong about other points as well. Basically then, see how everything works out after Paul translates the agreement for us when it is known.
 
I'll also search for AMPTP's' original offers, which they published. Both sides put on a campaign full of headline grabbing hyperbole. It will be fun to compare the headlines of the past to the facts of the contract.
 
Tom, I don't have time to respond in depth right now but I think the issue with AI is exactly the opposite of what you're describing. Famous actors own their likeness and wiil have a strong hand in any agreement to license it. I think the AI protections they're talking about probably involved limiting what union members are allowed to do cuz starving actors have been giving away their body scan for a measly day rates and it's going to destroy the lower rungs of the acting career ladder including background actors and Extras work etc
I don't understand why a studio would need expensive (royalties, payment, etc.) background actor face scans for AI background extras. As far as I'm aware, sites like ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com do not even need a person to scan the face, as it's using machine learning from old scans to create an entirely new person that doesn't exist. If it's just a background person and not replicating a celebrity, why would they need a real person if the AI could just create a person that doesn't exist and then not have to pay anyone?

On the other hand with celebrities, they'd want to duplicate their face in particular and not just create a non-existent AI face because they'd hope to draw audiences in based on using that celebrity's likeness.
 
I don't understand why a studio would need expensive (royalties, payment, etc.) background actor face scans for AI background extras. As far as I'm aware, sites like ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com do not even need a person to scan the face, as it's using machine learning from old scans to create an entirely new person that doesn't exist. If it's just a background person and not replicating a celebrity, why would they need a real person if the AI could just create a person that doesn't exist and then not have to pay anyone?

On the other hand with celebrities, they'd want to duplicate their face in particular and not just create a non-existent AI face because they'd hope to draw audiences in based on using that celebrity's likeness.

I don't know. But they're doing it so they must need it. And it's full-body scans, not face scans
 
They may not need it, but it's way cheaper to pay somebody $187/day for 15 minutes of work to get a unique body and face into a database. I wonder how many people Disney scanned before this came to a halt.
 
They may not need it, but it's way cheaper to pay somebody $187/day for 15 minutes of work to get a unique body and face into a database. I wonder how many people Disney scanned before this came to a halt.
How is $187 per day cheaper than clicking "Generate new face" on the AI programming and getting a new face for $0? Because that is how ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com works, it creates a new face with each reload of the page, and doesn't cost anyone any money.
 
They may not need it, but it's way cheaper to pay somebody $187/day for 15 minutes of work to get a unique body and face into a database. I wonder how many people Disney scanned before this came to a halt.

We should get it free in the public domain, from all those body scans TSA collects at airport security checks.
 
How is $187 per day cheaper than clicking "Generate new face" on the AI programming and getting a new face for $0? Because that is how ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com works, it creates a new face with each reload of the page, and doesn't cost anyone any money.

They want entire bodies, not just faces. They want 3-dimensional information. The AI output is only as good as the breadth and depth of the dataset it has to work with. It isn't magic. Plus, they may be concerned about copyright and licensing, etc. They would be in safer territory if they owned their own dataset and had explicit permission from the subjects to use their scans in this way.

For reference, this is the current state of background actor generation, although I had read this was AI and now I see in the hollywood reporter that it's actually cgi: https://youtu.be/rvkqfFrig_8?si=osoZbWkZiZ87gjSH

By the way, did people see that Honda and Toyota gave their non-union workers raises after UAW scored its contract victory? Said it nefore and I'll say it again: non-union workers also benefit from union negotiations
 
Using that chart and comparing the gains from 2000 to 2022 to the inflation rate for those years, SAG-AFTRA is 4.6% ahead of inflation over the 23 year period. Add in the 118 days of the strike for lost wages and the gain is reduced to somewhere between 2% and .65% depending on assumed working days of either 75% or 50% of the year. Or to put it another way, they gained 0.1% per year over the last 23 years.

They could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by negotiating 23 years ago; a raise in-perpetuity that is tied to the rate of inflation every year. People's lives were ruined for what?
 
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Using that chart and comparing the gains from 2000 to 2022 to the inflation rate for those years, SAG-AFTRA is 4.6% ahead of inflation over the 23 year period. Add in the 118 days of the strike for lost wages and the gain is reduced to somewhere between 2% and .65% depending on assumed working days of either 75% or 50% of the year. Or to put it another way, they gained 0.1% per year over the last 23 years.

They could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by negotiating 23 years ago; a raise in-perpetuity that is tied to the rate of inflation every year. People's lives were ruined for what?

I'm not going to check that math. But I doubt they could score a deal that was indexed for inflation. Minimum wage in this country isn't even indexed for inflation.

More to the point, there will always be new issues to fight over. In film and TV, it's streaming compensation and AI. In the auto industry, it was battery plants. (My vague understanding is that automakers didn't want battery factories covered by the same union contracts. But they lost.) And also there was an issue with two tiers of workers in auto plants. Not sure how that came to be, but automakers lost on that, too.

Here's a brief write-up of what sag-aftra secured:

According to Drescher, the new deal raises all SAG-AFTRA minimums by a fairly hefty 7 percent—and, probably more importantly, it also implements a “streaming residual bonus” expected to add up to about $40 million a year, which will go mostly to actors on streaming shows that break certain performance benchmarks, but with a quarter moving into a fund that will then be distributed to performers on less successful streaming series. The whole thing is built on a similar deal that the WGA carved out earlier this year, after it became clear that the big studios would probably let Hollywood burn to the ground before they’d start letting actors have direct profit sharing from their streaming subscriptions.

Meanwhile, the union also extracted some “guardrails” on the use of AI, although, somewhat critically, it still allows studios to create digital copies of people with their express permission. (Or their heirs, in the case of “zombie actors,” to use a phrase Crabtree-Ireland busted out yesterday.) Critically, there are some hefty protections in place against “synthetic actors” created by taking a bunch of people and mashing their scans together, which seems like a good step in not allowing all of media to get smooshed into some sort of perpetual digital dystopia.
https://www.avclub.com/so-what-the-heck-did-sag-aftra-actually-get-from-all-t-1851013403

I don't know if that info is accurate or complete, but I linked to the article so you can evaluate the source and draw your own conclusions.
 
Yes, certainly they need to address issues besides wages. I prefer to read the actual text of agreements.

Regarding minimum wage, yes, it's quite a ways off. I recently calculated that. Back when I was getting it, it was $1.60. Adjusted for inflation, it should be $11.56, but it is $7.50 at the federal level. Why would anyone work for $7.50/hr?

$15/hr isn't much of an ask.
 
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Yes, certainly they need to address issues besides wages. I prefer to read the actual text of agreements.

Regarding minimum wage, yes, it's quite a ways off. I recently calculated that. Back when I was getting it, it was $1.60. Adjusted for inflation, it should be $11.56, but it is $7.50 at the federal level. Why would anyone work for $7.50/hr?

$15/hr isn't much of an ask.

$7.15 is kinda of crazy especially in some
places. In my state the state minimum wage is
$10.85/hr. But even the local McDonalds is
paying people $18/hr starting wage.
Federal minimum wage certainly isn’t
allowing anyone to actually pay that
ridiculous amount….not if they actually
want any workers. Lots of places can’t even
get workers at $25/hr so wages are going up
as all the employers are frantically competing
for labor.
 
I don't mind the minimum wage not being a 'livable wage'. There should be 'filler' jobs suitable for people just getting started or wanting part time work. But even $15/hr ($31,000/yr) is going to leave you with $25,700 after taxes (in CA) or $500/week. No one but a kid living at home can do anything with $500/wk.
 
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