Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

[quote author=Flintstone link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=30#39 date=02/18/05 at 06:51:28]For me, 24p just happens to be a bonus for the times when it will be needed.  I'm no interlace lover, I prefer progressive by far; although 24p sometimes nags me for it's motion judder, I think for my uses, 60p will be a great boon.[/quote]

Ya that's where I'm comin' from too... sometimes you just need the 60 frame video look to start with (hopefully progressive... interlaced would do). I HOPE Panasonic doesn't cripple itself like the Sony did by not putting a 60P option on the cam. Is there really any 60i at 720x480 HD? Would there be any reason why they don't implement 60P on the new cam? Where Sony drew the line in the sand with CF24 garbage and in a way abandon the indie market, I hope Panasonic doesn't shun the potential broadcastmarket and not have a 60p option on the cam.

True I am all for progressive too and it the FX1 was 1080P there I wouldn't even bother with a 720P... 24P or not.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

can 60p be effectively converted to 24p?
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Certainly a conversion could be done. Film transfer houses have basically been converting 60i to 24p for years and years; 60p to 24p would be the same process (except you'd have twice as much information to start from, so it should yield better results).

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=30#40 date=02/18/05 at 10:41:37]Is there really any 60i at 720x480 HD?[/quote]
Not sure what you're asking -- 720x480 is SD, and of course all SD has been 60i (prior to the introduction of the few progressive-scan cameras). I'm assuming you were asking "is there really any such HD format as 720/60i?" And if that's what you were asking, I believe the answer is no, nobody's doing 1280x720 at any interlaced frame rate, 60i or otherwise; 1280x720 seems to be only and ever progressive-scan.
 Would there be any reason why they don't implement 60P on the new cam?
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Well, considering that there's only one camera in the world (that I know of) that shoots 1280x720x60p, and it costs $65,000... yes, there may be reasons. Of course, there may not be too... JVC implemented 60p (although at standard-def resolution, 720x480) on their HD1 camera... so maybe we'll get full 60p scanning too. Don't know, but we'll see.

I hope Panasonic doesn't shun the potential broadcastmarket and not have a 60p option on the cam.
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As do we all! 60p would be fantastic for many reasons, the first of which is: reality shows, sports, news field reporting, anything where you want the "immediacy" of the "video" look, 60p would give you that (but with twice as much data per frame). But also, with 60p you could do flawless, lossless, perfect smooth magnificent slow motion. So I'm hoping we get 60p!
True I am all for progressive too and it the FX1 was 1080P there I wouldn't even bother with a 720P... 24P or not.
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Well, that depends on what recording format it's using. Nobody in their right mind would argue that 720/24p is better than 1080/24p. But if that 1080 camera is recording to a low-bitrate MPEG-2 codec that seizes up for 15 frames at a time at the slightest hint of a dropout, etc., I'd still say there'd be a segment of the market who would vote for the 720 camera as long as it's using a quality codec and a loss-proof recording medium.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

I played my wedding vid on my cousin's high def toshiba.Shot in 4:3,just set the menu on the tv to full screen, looked perfectly fine.I'm not worried about hd or 16:9 if I can set the menu to full screen and then back to 16:9 , who cares? Content is what matters to me.
David
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=30#41 date=02/18/05 at 13:50:05]
Certainly a conversion could be done.  Film transfer houses have basically been converting 60i to 24p for years and years; 60p to 24p would be the same process (except you'd have twice as much information to start from, so it should yield better results).[/quote]

Are you sure about this?  I know that DVFilm won't transfer 30p footage to 24p because there's no smooth way to do it; are you sure that 60p doesn't have this problem as well?

Edited to answer my own question: I suppose you could always convert 60p to 60i by just throwing away half the data. Then, you could do a simple 60i to 24p conversion. Problem solved.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

60p is no different than 60i, motion-wise. Both are sampled 60 times per second. 60p just has more information per frame. If you wanted to "pretend" that 60p were 60i, all you'd have to do is throw away half of each frame, and you'd be left with 60 fields, and you most definitely can convert 60i to a simulation of 24p for film transfer; labs have been doing it for years.

The problem with 30p is that there's not enough motion samples to effectively convert down to 24p. But with 60p (or 60i) there's plenty of source info to work from.

(of course, the end result will not be the same as what you'd have gotten had you shot 24p in the first place... but the simulations have gotten pretty darn good.)
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=45#45 date=02/18/05 at 19:29:44]
The problem with 30p is that there's not enough motion samples to effectively convert down to 24p.  But with 60p (or 60i) there's plenty of source info to work from.  

[/quote]
Did you tried to convert 30p to 60i and than to 24p? How does it look?

If I would buy a DVX100AE today? No. It was nice to have and to use the DVX in some jobs where other camcorders was to big but new technologi gives new possibilities.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

30p does not convert to 60i, per say. you are only getting 30 samples per second. whereas in 60i you are getting 60. now granted the 30 samples are twice the resoltuion of each single sample of 60i, but it is still just 30 motion samples to work with. That is why it cannot be converted.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

[quote author=scharky link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=45#47 date=02/18/05 at 21:37:48]30p does not convert to 60i, [/quote]You can convert what ever you have to what ever you like. Just try it. But I just wonder how does it look if you convert 30p to 24p. I'm in PAL and we use only 50i/25p.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

30p converted to 60i will look exactly like 30p. In fact, 30p on tape is recorded as 60i. Scharky's answer is exactly correct.

30p converted to 24p looks absolutely horrible, like CineFrame 24 on a drunken binge and being chased by a rabid bat. It's simply awful. I've seen it from an XL1/frame mode transferred to film and it was unwatchable.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=30#41 date=02/18/05 at 13:50:05]-I'm assuming you were asking "is there really any such HD format as 720/60i?"  And if that's what you were asking, I believe the answer is no, nobody's doing 1280x720 at any interlaced frame rate, 60i or otherwise; 1280x720 seems to be only and ever progressive-scan.
Well, considering that there's only one camera in the world (that I know of) that shoots 1280x720x60p, and it costs $65,000... yes, there may be reasons.  Of course, there may not be too... JVC implemented 60p (although at standard-def resolution, 720x480) on their HD1 camera... so maybe we'll get full 60p scanning too.  Don't know, but we'll see.
As do we all!  60p would be fantastic for many reasons, the first of which is: reality shows, sports, news field reporting, anything where you want the "immediacy" of the "video" look, 60p would give you that (but with twice as much data per frame).  But also, with 60p you could do flawless, lossless, perfect smooth magnificent slow motion.  So I'm hoping we get 60p! [/quote]
Ya oops.. that is what I was asking... specified wrong aspect by accident.  But as far as you know 60i in 720HD doesn't exsist?... weird... you would think band widthwise for broadcast it would.  Mind you it would be sweet if they just skipped the option all together and just went 60P... now that would be sweet and your right for slow mo stuff it would be awesome!

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=30#41 date=02/18/05 at 13:50:05]Well, that depends on what recording format it's using.  Nobody in their right mind would argue that 720/24p is better than 1080/24p.  But if that 1080 camera is recording to a low-bitrate MPEG-2 codec that seizes up for 15 frames at a time at the slightest hint of a dropout, etc., I'd still say there'd be a segment of the market who would vote for the 720 camera as long as it's using a quality codec and a loss-proof recording medium.[/quote]
True yes... I was making a general statment that 1080/24P would be better than 720 but I do agree there are other things to consider.  It will be interesting to see how this new debate card vs tape plays out in the long run.  It's clearly going to go the card route at sometime but it would appear unless cost/compression/record time ratio changes drastically, the transition to become mainstream may be a long long ways away... further than the HD transition itself.  To bad HD wasn't better quality/smaller size... whishful thinking. ::)
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

720 is only progressive, regardless of the frame rate. So there is no 60i.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

I am in the market to buy another DVX. i would be more concerned about a DVX-200 or upgraded 'A' that has native 16:9. The HD factor is a whole new ball game to enter. So HDX sounds good but NLE wise it takes an even bigger investment. For a 200 model that would suck to buy a 100a prematurly. But the job dictates the purchase.
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

The NLE question is something of a non-issue if you're using FCP-HD, as it natively supports the HDX's format. Same with Avid, and someone said Edius supports it as well.

Now, an HD monitor, well, that's another question...

No need for a deck though, because the HDX's P2 memory cards will plug right into a laptop or into a PC-Card reader on a PC/Mac (er, assuming there is such a thing, I'm pretty sure there is).
 
Re: Would you still buy a DVX100A today?

[quote author=Boomerang link=board=HDV;num=1108483226;start=45#52 date=02/21/05 at 17:03:07]I am in the market to buy another DVX.  i would be more concerned about a DVX-200 or upgraded 'A' that has native 16:9. The HD factor is a whole new ball game to enter. So HDX sounds good but NLE wise it takes an even bigger investment. For a 200 model that would suck to buy a 100a prematurly. But the job dictates the purchase. [/quote]

exactly my thoughts and i just ordered mine.

barry, liquid edition supports it too once it is out i am sure. all NLEs will follow. i still am sure there are extra costs with the higher resolution, cos there will be more pixels to be shifted, but it is neglectable maybe compared to the price of the cam, P2 cards and monitors (not speaking of distribution of the HD footage).
in a year we all will have tried HD out and we shall see how it works by then.
 
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