Would my script be an action, or horror film?

I

ironpony

Carbonite Member
Not sure what genre mine falls into. Just so there is no confusion, this is not the same script I was talking about before. This one is written for a very microbudget, and it's cops vs. a violent gang, but the action is written so that the shear terror of it, excites the audience, rather than bigger budget explosions and destruction. The action is written to be filmed like the climax of United 93. Something that can be done on a very low budget, and just rely on mostly good acting, and directing.

But some might say that kind of violence, not being like most action sequences in movies, may belong in more of the horror genre, like Last House on the Left, since it too concentrates on the scary drama of it, more than pyrotechnics. So if you had a movie like United 93, but it had fighting like that for half the movie, would it be an action or a horror, or neither?
 
If a movie is designed to scare the viewer, provide terror, fear, then it is horror. There are all sorts of horror subgenres-- action horror, supernatural horror, creature horror, serial killer horror, slasher horror, etc.
 
Horror and thrillers are stories told from the point of view of the 'victim', they are about survival.

Horror stories don't have subplots, they are all about the main plot, all about survival.

Thrillers are more complex, because they deal with a lot of other issues other than survival.

Is your story told by the point of view of the victim or the agressors? Horror films/stories communicate feelings of dread and fear. Does your story aim to make the audience feel dread?

You reference the climax of United 93, and although the story and its climax are in fact about survival, the film is not a horror story, its a thriller. Its told by the point of view of the victims as much as from the point of view of the agressors. And the film doesn't make you feel fear or dread, it makes you feel unease and tense.

You have to know what you want to final outcome of your film to be. How do you want your audience to feel. That should dictate more clearly what genre you are doing.
 
Well I disagree that horror is all main plot all the time. I mean in The Lost Boys, wasn't there a subplot about the mom having a relationship with some guy, and it was a sideplot that had nothing to do with the main?

What if United 93 there was a lot of that type of action for half the movie, as oppose to just the climax. Would that create a different tone, having tensity that often for the movie, and perhaps change the genre?
 
Nuno Dias said:
...Horror stories don't have subplots, they are all about the main plot, all about survival. ..
Click to expand...

I would also disagree with this. Many examples, but for example supernatural horror is usually often not about survival, but of solving a mystery, and also often has a subplot. In The Return, Joanna (Sarah Michelle Gellar) seeks to solve a mystery of visions of another woman, and why she [Joanna] cuts herself; and there is a romantic subplot with her and a local man related to supernatural mystery. In Dark Water, Dahlia (Jennifer Connely) seeks to solve a mystery as to why 'dark water' keeps leaking from her ceiling, why she sees a ghost child; but there is a very strong subplot of her divorce, the child custody issues, etc.

Now if by 'horror' you mean slasher horror, then yes probably most slasher horror deals with survival and usually very infrequent subplot.
 
Those films have mix genres. They are thrillers with horror elements. Like Se7en.

True horror films, have no subplots, because the story of survival is bigger than anything else. What is the subplot of Alien? There isn't one, just don't get eaten from start to finish. Or The Blair Witch Project? The Exorcist, Paranormal Activity, etc...

Horror can come from 3 different 'places'

When you know what the source of the threat is. Like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
When you don't know what the source of the threat is. Like Paranormal Activity.
When both of these options are possible and you keep guessing which (These in my opinion are the best). Like The Shinning.

I absolutely love the horror genre. Especially when isn't mix with anything else. Its a very underrated genre, its also the most badly abused genre (in my humble opinion.)
 
Nuno Dias said:
...True horror films, have no subplots, because the story of survival is bigger than anything else...
Click to expand...

Foremost, horror films are not all about survival; there are various types of horror films-- vampire, zombie, thriller, serial killer, supernatural/ghost, etc. Does anybody seriously not think that The Silence of the Lambs (serial killer horror-thriller) has no subplot?
 
Nuno Dias said:
T
True horror films, have no subplots, because the story of survival is bigger than anything else. What is the subplot of Alien?
Click to expand...

The android character Ash and his mission to save the Alien at the expense of the crew if necessary.
 
Searcher said:
The android character Ash and his mission to save the Alien at the expense of the crew if necessary.
Click to expand...

That's not a subplot, that's character, he works as an antagonist to the rest of the crew. He only exists to make Ripley's life even more difficult, she's getting attacked by all sides! He even tries to rape/kill her!

Randall, vampire, zombie, slashers, whatnot, are all about the victim's escaping these mumbling idiots, about surviving their attacks. But if its from the zombie's point of view, then its not a horror film, is it? Most of the time, is a comedy with horror conventions.

Silence of the Lambs is most definitely not a horror film. A dark, somber thriller is a very different beast than a horror film.

Horror films are really quite simple and very stripped down, that's why they are so very difficult to get right. There are very, very few good horror films. Most times, film makers, mix them with other genres, so they can get subplots going on, because having just one single storyline with nowhere else to go, its damn hard. Plus you gotta scare the audience!

They are also very difficult to direct, horror is (in my opinion) the most 'cinematic' genre, because its all about the camera, the light, and the mood. If the camera, the framing, or the angle is not quite right, the scare won't work, if the light is not quite right, the mood won't be right, and so on...Horror really needs all cinematic tricks to work.

Horror is a very technical genre, but it also has to have a really strong psychological reason. They're hard, very hard to do... (right)
 
Nuno Dias said:
...Randall, vampire, zombie, slashers, whatnot, are all about the victim's escaping these mumbling idiots, about surviving their attacks. But if its from the zombie's point of view, then its not a horror film, is it? Most of the time, is a comedy with horror conventions. Silence of the Lambs is most definitely not a horror film. A dark, somber thriller is a very different beast than a horror film.
..... (right)
Click to expand...

Nuno, whether a movie is horror or any genre comes down to the definition of that genre. You have a narrow definition of 'horror movies' compared to myself and to much of the movie-watching world. Roger Ebert considers SOTL to be horror, so do many other critics and lists of top horror movies, and myself. More specifically SOTL is a horror-thriller; as I said before "horror" is a genre that 'horrifies', that simply provides scares, and SOTL does this in buckets; but "horror" is made up of many subgenres-- creature horror, supernatural horror, thriller horror, serial killer horror, psychological horror, sci-fi horror, et al.

We can agree we disagree. :)

By the way, Silence of the Lambs is the only horror movie to my knowledge to have won an academy award. Maybe subplot and character arc is a good thing even in horror.
 
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Seriously, does SOTL scares you? Or anyone? It creates tension, its uncomfortable, but surely does not scare or horrify! IMDB classifies it as a thriller, and I strongly agree. But you can call it what you wish, or course.

Silence of the Lambs is about finding the next victim, stopping Hannibal Lecter from murdering. Its a cop movie set in a dark world. Not at all a horror film. Like Seven or Twin Peaks, they're crime thrillers, very different from horror! Even the crimes being horrific, don't make them horror films. They aren't told from the point of view of the victim being killed/chased! In fact, Clarice is the one doing the chasing...

My vision of horror is not narrow, is made by a lot of study and analysis of the genre. Horror is not made up by various subgenres, IT CAN have lots of subgenres, only because Horror is a genre in itself!

What's the subgenre of the Shinning? Or the Exorcist? Alien or Halloween? They are all about surviving a monster, an unknown malevolent force or a crazy nutter with a kitchen knife. Period. There are no other stories going on at the same time! This list can go on, and on. But if you think this is narrow, try it. Try writing a horror film. One that will be successful at scaring millions around the world!

Now if, you want to mix it up with a thriller, a cop movie, or a comedy, by all means, but then its a mixed genre. Not a true piece of horror. Paranormal Activity came out of nowhere and not only critics such as Ebert loved it, but audiences around the world embraced it as well. Where's the subgenre in that? isn't it about the survival of the couple? What are the subplots? There aren't any.

But of course there are no rules in film making, but from what I've study, the films that do work (critically and commercially) in any given genre, respect and obey very clearly defined genre conventions. Its up to the writer to know those conventions inside out. And if talented enough, twist those conventions, not ignore them!

Just because this might be news for you, doesn't make it false, narrow or simplistic. It is what it is.
 
All good Nuno. It is just a definition, films cross genres. There are many critics and websites that do NOT classify Silence of the Lambs as 'horror' but rather just call it a thriller. Other critics/sites DO classify it as 'horror'. Still others properly classify it (in my opinion) as horror-thriller (genre-subgenre).

Somewhat related --for anybody interested-- here is a really nice book I recently read, emphasizing the aesthetics of horror (for wrtiers / filmmakers). Does very specific analysis of many horror films.
Horror Film Aesthetics: Creating The Visual Language of Fear

"This richly informed study analyzes how various cinematic tools and techniques have been used to create horror on screen--the aesthetic elements, sometimes not consciously noticed, that help to unnerve, frighten, shock or entertain an audience. The first two chapters define the genre and describe the use of pragmatic aesthetics (when filmmakers put technical and budgetary compromises to artistic effect). Subsequent chapters cover mise-en-scene, framing, photography, lighting, editing and sound, and a final chapter is devoted to the aesthetic appeals of horror cinema."
http://www.amazon.com/Horror-Film-Aesthetics-Creating-Language/dp/0786449721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321114287&sr=8-1

horror-film-aesthetics-visual-language-fear-thomas-m-sipos-paperback-cover-art.jpg


 

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I see where Nuno is coming from on one level. I have had that argument...or genrement... many (many) times.

On the surface, "genres" are compartmentalizms not unlike the Dewey Decimal System.
That is to say there are only so many sections, and we want to guide the library patrons to the right general area with as few questions as possible.
Frankly, these "sections" are for the "masses", as they are easy/simple/uncomplicated.
Many times that works, other times it's not so meat and potatoes.

If one digs deeper though, you have to go with your gut (or guts in the case of horror) to find the hidden genre for these other films.
It's like "animal style" at In n' Out...but that's a bad example because so many know about it.
Hmmm, it's like a "hidden menu item", but one that truly is hidden to all but a few.

Examples:
Star Wars is labeled (or genre'ed) SCI-FI. I think we can agree wink-wink :SecretHandshake: it ain't. It's Fantasy all the way.

Silence of the Lambs is cited (or was) as the "Highest Grossing Horror Film Ever"...not to mention "horror's" sole major Oscar winner.
Yet I think it would be more than fair to say (to those in the know) that it is the father of the modern "Psychological Thriller".

That's where I get off the Nuno bus.
What the hell do you mean "never a subplot in true horror"??
What about:
The Shining (Jack's alcoholism)
Alien (as mentioned above)
Psycho (the affair; the search for the stolen money; the guilt involved with both)
The Birds (Hello, Mister Hidden MacGuffin!)
etc. etc. etc.



The point I'm making is that filmmakers (AKA storytellers) should yes, know the Dewey Decimal Genre they'll be swimming in...
but should also know what the "real" genre of their story is.

:beer:
 
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I'm not trying to be anal about this, but if there is one thing that I love about storytelling, its genre. The funny thing about genre is, there are no rules, only pre-conceived ideas that have worked in the past, and are deeply rooted within the audiences imagination of any given genre. Meaning, what any given audience expects to see once they are told what kind of film they are about to see. Are they expecting to be scared? To cry? To be tense? This defines genre. Not the blockbuster shelf!

When I propose that there are no subplots in a horror film, I don't mean there is no character traits/goals/arcs. By the way Callaghan, its spelled NUNO not NINO. :happy:

Jacks alcoholism is not a subplot. Its a character trait. We don't see him dealing with its drinking problem, we don't see the aftermath of a drunken bender, nothing in the story is ever a consequence of his drinking. Although the entire film might be in his head due to alcoholism... ah!

Alien, I didn't get that... And I never saw Psycho as a horror film. I mean, the master of suspense for crying out loud. The Birds? Come on. Thrillers are also stories told from the point of view of the victims. As long as it thrills the audience... its a thriller. When it horrifies the audience, its a horror...

Horror film speak to the audience on a very primal way. To live the experience of fright, dread, in the confort and safety of the movie theatre. Thrillers are about 'What's going to happen next?' horror is 'I'm scared to see what's going to happen next'

Horror films transmit a sense of fear, panic. Thrillers offer something quite different, tension. And it seems that people confuse having gruesome elements in a movie to make it horror. That's so easy isn't it?
 
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Alcoholism is absolutely the subplot of The Shining.
(He dislocated Danny's arm because of it. Wendy talks of it with the doctor...)

What is debatable:
Was it Jack's decline into crazytown or the evil haunts of the Overlook that is the main plot?
(I personally think it is co-chaired by both of them.)
 
Don't need to be sarcastic. Getting someone's name right shows courtesy and good manners. And no, I don't need your name correction to feel big. Just need you to get it right, that's all.
 
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