working your way into the industry

Finnegan

Finnegan

Well-known member
I'm on the verge of graduating college with a BA in film and media studies, so I'm looking to the future for options about working my way into the film industry. I've applied to graduate schools, and I think that if I am accepted I'll probably go even if its just for the connections that I'll inevitably make there.

but nearly all of my film professors have told me that I shouldn't go to graduate school. in fact, almost every single one of them says that the best way to work your way into the industry is by meeting people on set, starting out as a set PA. the question is - how do you even get onto set as a PA? I don't know anyone in the industry who could wiggle me a spot on set, and I'm pretty sure you don't go browsing craigslist for PA opportunities. so, how do you start out working your way up in the industry?
 
You will work for little to nothing to get your foot in the door. No need for grad school and you'll soon find out your BA means nothing. Does this mean you could have skipped college and built a reelt hat will get you gigs? Yes but you would have totally missed some sweet parties.
 
I personally hate it when people say that. I am a student as well in a film program. The degree is equivalent to to getting a BA in drama, or music. Use the schools network. That alone makes the investment worthwhile. I've talked with numerous producers and directors, and have a lot of their phone numbers and email addresses.

Could I have gotten that had I moved to LA? Not really. The network college gives you is what you pay money for. (And the fact if you film aspirations fall through - you can be employed somewhere other than a fast food joint or a trucker.

grinner said:
You will work for little to nothing to get your foot in the door. No need for grad school and you'll soon find out your BA means nothing. Does this mean you could have skipped college and built a reelt hat will get you gigs? Yes but you would have totally missed some sweet parties.
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If alumni is what is being purcahsed, there are film schools that don't eat up 4 years for that.
Shoot, become an eagle scout as a kid and put that ona resume. lol
All I can say is while I'd not trade any of my years of college, it was my willingness to work for 3 bucks an hour that got me in the industry.
 
I actually am an eagle scout.

I am a big proponent of school. You get equipment (free) other talent (free) crews (free) the network (free). And they actually push you to make films. A lot even start you with film. A dying art.

I think you are missing the big picture here. A college degree will never be worthless. More often than not, it doesn't help in the creative field, but one of my professors, and the former exec-vp of development at Viacom said many a time that most everyone he has ever met who has an above-the-line job, has a college degree in something.

And if he didn't go to school, and couldn't make a living in film, without a college degree - who will hire you? Especially now.

There is more to school than you might give it.

grinner said:
If alumni is what is being purcahsed, there are film schools that don't eat up 4 years for that.
Shoot, become an eagle scout as a kid and put that ona resume. lol
All I can say is while I'd not trade any of my years of college, it was my willingness to work for 3 bucks an hour that got me in the industry.
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Finnegan said:
I'm on the verge of graduating college with a BA in film and media studies, so I'm looking to the future for options about working my way into the film industry. I've applied to graduate schools, and I think that if I am accepted I'll probably go even if its just for the connections that I'll inevitably make there.

but nearly all of my film professors have told me that I shouldn't go to graduate school. in fact, almost every single one of them says that the best way to work your way into the industry is by meeting people on set, starting out as a set PA. the question is - how do you even get onto set as a PA? I don't know anyone in the industry who could wiggle me a spot on set, and I'm pretty sure you don't go browsing craigslist for PA opportunities. so, how do you start out working your way up in the industry?
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I know a lot of people, myself included, that got entry level jobs via craigslist (or other job websites) that we eventually chained into bigger and better things such as gigs working on House and Private Practice. You PA on some POS production and you use that experience to get onto a slightly less POS production and you keep moving up the ladder from there. PAing should just be a means to and end though (such as paying the bills). Always have your true goal in sight (editing, directing, producing, scoring, whatever) and constantly be working towards that goal. It's very easy to get distracted or complacent but you should always stay focused. Even if that means turning down work (which you should only do if you can afford to obviously).

Mattykins,
You may hate it, but that doesn't mean there's not a good amount of truth to it. There are lots of good reasons to go to college but expecting it to give you a leg up on the creative side of this industry isn't one of them. :)

-A
 
Mattykins said:
I think you are missing the big picture here. A college degree will never be worthless. More often than not, it doesn't help in the creative field, but one of my professors, and the former exec-vp of development at Viacom said many a time that most everyone he has ever met who has an above-the-line job, has a college degree in something.
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You'll never hear me say college is worthless. It's simply not required in this field.
When I designed the Digital Effects and Animation depertment at Piedmont College, I designed it to educate and get to get gigs. Very few programs do that gig-getting part... or the educating, for that matter. I cannot tell you how many college grads have applied at my place who can't so much as read levels on a waveform monitor. Their degree is of no intrest to me but their reel is.
By this, the final at Piedmont IS your reel and ya leave with a list of regional employers hip to the program. Again, there are simply very few programs that take these strides towards actual job placement.
College is not something that should be skipped if offered, imo. But in no way does it mean you will have a job waiting for you when done. This is what I see in people who entertain grad school for media. They assume it will lead to a high paying job. It will not.
 
Mattykins said:
You get equipment (free) other talent (free) crews (free) the network (free). And they actually push you to make films. A lot even start you with film.
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This is all very true... but only if you happen to be at the right type and specific school, and if you make the effort to take advantage of these things while you're there. As great as it may have been, I'm sure you don't think your own success in whatever field that might be is due to a degree. It may help, but people right out of college- even if they can move up faster- start in the same position as everyone else.

Again, it definitely helps, and I encourage education in this field as well as any other... but nothing beats getting out there and networking. You've spent four years learning what to do. Now go do it.
 
Finnegan said:
how do you start out working your way up in the industry?
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Everyone starts out as a PA on some low budget shoot. What happens in the following two years is VERY important and will determine the course of your career. I have observed there are two kinds of people in production: 1) People who never move beyond PA and 2) People who do. What I mean is, the point of being a PA is to get a feel for the industry, work in various departments, and discover what you want to do. Then, your goal should be to get away from PA'ing as quickly as possible! If you're good at something, you will have no trouble moving onto the next phase. If you suck at your job or your social skills, you'll be asking yourself in ten years, "why is this industry so hard to break into?" Really, it's not. But it does require a special set of skills, some technical, some social, that take time to acquire. The sooner you "get it" the better off you'll be. But, honestly, if it's still not happening for you within four years, the problem is not the industry, it's you. I hope this helps you be successful.
 
orangesaybananas said:
Everyone starts out as a PA on some low budget shoot. What happens in the following two years is VERY important and will determine the course of your career. I have observed there are two kinds of people in production: 1) People who never move beyond PA and 2) People who do. What I mean is, the point of being a PA is to get a feel for the industry, work in various departments, and discover what you want to do. Then, your goal should be to get away from PA'ing as quickly as possible! If you're good at something, you will have no trouble moving onto the next phase. If you suck at your job or your social skills, you'll be asking yourself in ten years, "why is this industry so hard to break into?" Really, it's not. But it does require a special set of skills, some technical, some social, that take time to acquire. The sooner you "get it" the better off you'll be. But, honestly, if it's still not happening for you within four years, the problem is not the industry, it's you. I hope this helps you be successful.
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yeah, I generally don't think that the industry is some super exclusive club. I think you've just got to put in the time and effort it takes to really show you've got what it takes - just like anything worth doing. I want to be a director of photography, or a director. I'm still in undergraduate, so most of what I've done is ultra-low budget or non-existant budget with my own home-depot built lighting and canon xh-a1. I'm saving for a 35mm adapter and I hope to craigslist some real DP work since I think I'm pretty competent artistically.

in reality, I see myself working in the indie film industry but at the same time I want to keep the option to work in hollywood open, and that means starting out as a PA on a set where no one cares that I even exist. and I'm fine with that, I'm like, 100% sure I can charm people and show them I got what it takes through doing shitty productions until I can get onto better ones. but my question is along those lines - sure, sometimes you'll find entries on craigslist for shitty productions who need PAs or grips. and I'll take that. but once I've done 3-5 of those, where do you go from there? do you just use contacts you've made on set from those 3-5 shitty productions to wiggle your way onto slightly less shitty productions or do you keep going back to craigslist? because as far as I know, craigslist doesn't really provide you with a hierarchy of opportunity through which you can work up.
 
I never said it gives you a leg up. I am saying it isn't worthless. That piece of paper is worthwhile in everything you do. Unless you are some epic film maker. And depending on what school you go to, it does give you an entry point into jobs. You are in charge of pushing your way up. But college opens doors for you. If you do nothing, then you throw money away.

For what it's worth, I got my first gig from craigslist. PA for Psychic Investigators. A few weeks in college, just learning the bolex. And they had me toting around a Panavised F900. Now, I work as an Assistant Director (1st). My network is mostly upstate NY. I pull in several gigs a year on referal basis only. You need to give it 110 percent. Show them you are an asset.

All you have to do is get that first door opened.
 
vic777 said:
Get on the set as grip, and make those connections.
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Totally.


On a different note,
My film school just seemed like high school all over again, only with cameras. I am very glad for the experience I got to boost me above knowing nothing on my first couple sets, but I personally think film school is overrated and the best way is to just do it (like Nike says).
 
Finnegan said:
but my question is along those lines - sure, sometimes you'll find entries on craigslist for shi*ty productions who need PAs or grips. and I'll take that. but once I've done 3-5 of those, where do you go from there? do you just use contacts you've made on set from those 3-5 shi*ty productions to wiggle your way onto slightly less shi*ty productions or do you keep going back to craigslist?
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Both. You make friends w/everyone on every production you work on and if/when they get, or hear about, a better job hopefully they'll drop you a line. You also hit up various internet job boards (not just CL) and look for work there. You still need luck though. Especially in an economy like this I'd say plan on spending a couple of years in LA before you really start to gain traction.

Mattykins said:
I never said it gives you a leg up. I am saying it isn't worthless. That piece of paper is worthwhile in everything you do.
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The piece of paper is pretty worthless in this industry unless you want to teach or something but, like you said before, the opportunities outside of class (networking, internships, working on local productions, etc.,) is where a student's focus needs to be. Work gets you work in this industry and eventually people won't even ask if you have a resumé let alone a degree.


-A
 
Finnegan said:
my question is along those lines - sure, sometimes you'll find entries on craigslist for shi*ty productions who need PAs or grips. and I'll take that. but once I've done 3-5 of those, where do you go from there? do you just use contacts you've made on set from those 3-5 shi*ty productions to wiggle your way onto slightly less shi*ty productions or do you keep going back to craigslist? because as far as I know, craigslist doesn't really provide you with a hierarchy of opportunity through which you can work up.
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I used to believe Craigslist and low rent productions were a Road To Nowhere. I no longer do. In fact, even now, as a 1K a day advertising videographer, I still take on PA jobs on indie features, because of the contacts and networking. Never know when I might need additional crew, for a bigger shoot, that I am producing. Indie features are an excellent source for finding young (more affordable) talent in all areas of the production business. You never know who you'll meet. More often than not, the DP's on the indie features are way more experienced than I am as a DP, so it's always fun to see how they work and how they handle bigger lighting setups. There's always more to learn in this business. Everyday I learn something new. Keep pounding the pavement....
 
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