Working with the Zoom F6

B

Bassman2003

Veteran
Hello,

I recently purchased a Zoom F6 to upgrade my music recordings and am really happy with the unit. I run it in 32bit float mode and find it is as advertised, a great tool for the one man band. I just turn it on, plug in my mics and timecode from a camera and hit record. Easy.

My question for the community is more about handling the files and processing. I have always been in a 24bit environment where levels were set carefully and when working in post, one was mindful of limitations of processing & levels etc... 24bit is very forgiving but 32bit float is totally wide open. I notice that when I bring the tracks in from the F6, the levels have been pretty low in general. I use Cakewalk Sonar X3 as my DAW software and I wanted to ask the preferred way to bring the levels back up?

For example, I recorded a chamber music group recently and my stereo pair was probably 20-30 feet back form the group. When these tracks were put in Sonar they were probably bouncing around -20dBFS. I have read in the past it is better bring low levels up with compression gain rather than just boosting the faders. What is your take on this? Does it even matter in a 32bit float original file format with the DAWs being 64bit for processing?

Just wondering as it is sort of a strange situation to be in. One thing I have noticed with the F6 is that the recorded tracks seem very open. I can put a lot more compression on them and they seem to stay unaffected. Overall it has been a great product and I love the NP-F style battery hookup. I can put on a large battery on and not care for the rest of the day.

Thanks for your input.
 
Why don't you just increase the dB?

Most people who use this device are recording a little hotter and then bringing the dB down. (Or recording a healthy amount of audio as they normally do and then key-framing the hot spots.)
 
Are you saying increase the dB on the unit or in post? The unit does not allow you to adjust input levels in 32bit float mode. Or I am mistaken in this area.
 
P.S. I think they are technically called "faders". (Audio guys/gals will know best.)

But in short, you can control what you see in the device if you wanted to see a normal level, but it's mostly all post.

What's your main video editing software?
 
Ok, I called zoom and they said while the input trim is greyed out in 32bit float mode, the output levels actually do affect the input levels. Why this is so, I do not know. So input trim is active even though the unit shows it as disabled. I will know I can set levels with more meat next time.
 
The knobs behave like faders adjusting the volume.

Just wondering...always seem like there is some sort of complication in your workflow so wondering if Edius might support it.

FCP X works in 32-bit and you just drag the gain bar up or down.
 
Digital recorder/mixers have gotten more complicated especially the Zoom. In a traditional mixer you have separate dials for Trim/Gain and Fader. But this isn't the case with Zoom, depending on what mode the dial can be set to control either. Normally you set the gain to a safe level that will not clip and then ride your faders during the recording to obtain the optimal levels you want. In addition if you're recording iso tracks, the faders will only effect the mix that is often sent to the camera. This provides a safety track , if you set your faders too high and clipped you could go back to the unfaded recorded iso track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9b5w_JJQP0

32bit is a seperate issue but related. So in 32bit you don't have to worry about setting the levels or riding the faders in regards to clipping but the problem is if you need/want to ride your faders while recording and you don't do it then you will have to do it then in post. So I prefer to not use 32bit unless I'm unable to monitor and adjust my levels during recording. But if you're simply going to normalize your recording in 32bit there is no problems if the levels are low.

To use a video analogy if they built a camera with unlimited dynamic range and it was impossible over or under expose, you could film anyway you want and disregard the exposure, but you'd have to re watch all your footage again and fix in post. This is why I find it best to get as much as you can right while filming because it will mean less work later on. This goes double for audio.
 
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What was confusing to me about the F6 is that the Zoom rep said the output levels act as a reference level for the inputs. And wherever the output levels are set, that would act as your input level when you start recording. So one gets the opportunity to roughly set input levels before recording. Once the button is pressed, the input levels are locked but the outputs can be changed dynamically.
 
Zoom is ok but not what I would consider industry standard and will operate according to how they setup the device. So sounds like what they're saying is gain is set and locked once recording has begun and you use your faders to make adjustments. Which should be fine. I find it helpful to understand the accepted principals and practices and then see how your device decides to implement them. Then do a test to practice your understand with real use.
 
The technology has a lot of headroom so no issues but I find the setup results in low levels for multitrack recordings. I send a safety feed to one camera and set the outputs to a rough final mix. Given this scenario, one tends to go low on all six tracks so the mix does not add up and overmodulate to the camera. I would prefer to still have the input level settings be separate from the output so you could track a little stronger but still send out a separate mix. Maybe I can bring this up as a firmware request.
 
The Zoom F8n is a more full feature mixer that might have what you want. There also break out boxes that help if you want a larger interface to work with while recording. I think of the F6 as a lower end, designed to mix multiple sources and send to your camera, not as a truly pro level mixer. This doesn't mean the audio quality is bad, just that higher end equipment have more features and their interface is better. You might just be exceeding the intended use of this device.
 
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I would disagree to some extent as the F6 is a recording device before it is a mixer in my view. Its only output is a 1/8" jack. I am not looking for more than unit has to offer, just an implementation tweak. If the input levels need to be locked, fine, just do not tie them to output levels. Do you own an F6?
 
There is an option in the menu to unlock/adjust the way you control the levels.

I don't remember exactly anymore as I sold it months ago, but maybe page 84: I believe the default is 'PFL' and you'd change it to 'SOLO'.

If that's not it, it's something else as I had the same thoughts and wanted to independently control the levels during recording to adjust for soft-spoken individuals and louder speakers after recording had begun, and I was able to after tweaking some menu settings.

https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_F6_3.pdf
 
I don't own the F6 but at one point I was looking at mixers that have internal recording. If I was going to buy one I would get Sound Devices MixPre. I like how they work better than Zoom. You might want to look at the MixPre. What you're describing isn't a bug its how they've designed it to work, so I can't see them changing it in a firmware update.
 
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Thanks. I will dive in deeper. It is pretty complex with the operational differences between 24bit and 32bit modes. BTW, I never said it was a bug... :)
 
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