Working the Assistant Director chain...

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weltonfilment

Active member
OK, so here's the deal. I have the opportunity to go work for a commercial production company in LA as a PA. I don't know many of the details just yet, because I don't plan on moving for another 4 months (ie, how much I would be getting paid per day, etc), but for right now let's just assume that I'll have a job as a PA working on commercials.

How hard is it for a PA to work their way up through the AD chain? From PA to 2nd 2nd, then on to 2nd, etc. If you bust your ass, work really hard, and meet everyone you can that will potentially be able to help your career out, is it possible? Or is going from PA to 2nd 2nd AD something that takes years and special training to do?
 
Other may disagree...
but the people I know who went that route grew to regret it. I don't think one's working himself up the production ladder happens so much any more (especially from the status of PA.) Their biggest complaint? That they see surprisingly little action due to all the grunt/gopher work that consumes their time.

IMHO only of course.
 
it happens, you have to be bad ass and no bullshit. johny on the spot, kick ass...people will notice...dont be lazy.
 
Rich is quite right. It does happen, slowly.

I don't know how to work up the food chain, if you don't have your foot in the door.

It's not the most glamorous position, but it's a start. But you're pretty much the lowest on a set.

You've got nothing to lose, so bust your butt and see what happens.
 
As said you have nothing to lose, but a person almost never works up the AD chain. It's so rare, you can almost say never.

This is how it works from what I have seen. A person calls themselves a director right out of the gate or directly out of film school. They get their first indie done, maybe a few spec spots and then struggle like crazy to work as a director, extremely competitive.

Often the director on a spot will be younger than many of the AD team. He will be a guy a few years out of school who won a few awards and is the next big thing. An ad agent or production house rarely looks to a hardworking AD to move to the director position.

This business is one of instant classification. Everyone's too busy. "yeah, he's a leading man, he's a character guy, he's a great 1st, what a great line producer, he's this kickass director that did so and so's video."

Remember art is so subjective. You are a director if you say you are, and then your work speaks for it's self. I'm exagerating slightly to make the point, but not much.

Working on an AD team is great for a short period of time.

Again, from my experience.

Cheers,
Chris
 
"Working up the ladder" may have worked in the unionized studio system, but nowadays it's basically more irritating to a producer than it is helpful. If I want to hire an assistant director, I want someone who lives and breathes to be an assistant director. If I instead get someone who's only doing the job because they really intend to direct (and will offer their "helpful hints" ad nauseum to the real director), well, that guy gets the axe. People need to be doing the job they're hired to do, not trying to do the job they really wish they had.

Knock Out's got it right -- if you want to be a director, direct your own stuff and blow everyone else away with how awesome you are. That's what Spielberg did. He didn't climb any ladder, he set himself up in a trailer on the Universal lot and then went around telling everyone that he was a director. Soon enough someone asked to see his stuff and -- well, he's Spielberg, so his stuff was pretty good... so they hired him.

If you just want to learn, then sure, take whatever job you can, and keep your eyes open -- but always always always be focusing on your main job. If you're hired to be a P.A., be the very best P.A. in the world. Having a grip on the set who really thinks he should be the director is a good way for someone to get hurt -- if he's too busy watching the framing, and not watching someone about to bump into a light stand and knock it over... well... he shouldn't let the door hit him on the butt on the way out, but I guarantee you he'd be on his way out.
 
maybe im wrong, but i dont think weltonfilment is talking about working his way up to director...it sounds like he's refering to working up through the assistant director ranks...weltonfilment, is that right? or did you mean working up to director? im confused now...

not that working up to assist director is an easy thing...but it is very different then trying to work up to director.

if director is your bag, then be the best at whatever your day job is, and make your films on the side.
 
Exactly, "it sounds like he's refering to working up through the assistant director ranks".

I assume the same thing.
 
I understand that maybe some people want to just work on the AD team, but I have rarely met anyone like that. I don't mean that as the old cliche about everyone wanting to direct, but most people I meet on the AD team have a desire to direct, or have a project that want to get off the ground or in someway want to lead their own project.

But life gets in the way. I know the original question was not so much a desire of knowledge as it reflects a life quest, but again I know first hand how time can fly by. My 20 / 20 hindsight tells me that I think a person is better off making their stake as early as possible and then live and die by their own work.

Get a production job, you can learn a lot in a short time, but don't let it suck you in if have even a trace of a desire to create your own work. You'll wake up with a mortgage, a car payment and a lack of healthy naivety. :)

Cheers,
Chris
 
"Or is going from PA to 2nd 2nd AD something that takes years and special training to do?"

Nope, you can be a 2nd 2nd AD if you basically know how to take orders and do them without making mistakes. Shoot, if you make a good impression the first day - you can even jump from PA to 2nd 2nd if they need one.

It could be anything from xeroxing/stapling sides, grabbing actors from their trailers, ordering PA's to pick up equipment, help hand out walkies...it's not brain surgery. All you need to do is get the job done quick and not whine a lot. Oh, and problem solve on the fly.

If you PA, just sponge all the information you can. Listen to who has the best deals on equipment, learn how crappy the set politics could be, meet other cool motivated PA's who might want to work on your personal low budget projects (as a dp, grip, sound, etc), learn from the AD's/Directors mistakes.

I've met some really great PA's while I was doing it and eventually we all sorta branched out into the directions we wanted to go (writing, camera, coordinating, acting, etc). Everyone is still struggling, but it's cool when you have a circle of film friends that encourages each other to do well. It's tough finding those kinds of people in LA.
 
I work off and on as a P.A. in the commercial world because the money is stellar, the work is mind-bogglingly easy, and you get to work with amazing people in a low-stress, fun atmosphere. If you are working union commercials, you can expect to get paid no less than $200 per day, if you are working outside of the L.A. zone, you are paid anywhere between 3.5 cents and 4.2 cents per mile (which can turn out to be a really really sweet deal, especially if your production decides to make your car a production vehicle, because they then also pay for your gas, on top of milage). I primarily work as a D.P., but I have a family friend who is a Production Coordinator, and I do her really great gigs, which are usually like once a month and for a week at a time. I know three guys who worked up to 2nd 2nd, but 2nd 2nd is no longer a recognized position with a noticable pay increase - you just have a different work load than say a Camera P.A. or a Production P.A. or and Office P.A. If you want to work in the A.D. food chain, then work as a P.A., get buddy buddy with your Production Manager, tell them that you want to 2nd 2nd, after a few months, they'll let you. Once you are comfortable doing that, start popping on to craigslist.com and mandy.com and try to get some gigs as a 2nd or a 1st until you can get your DGA days... you need I think 300 to join the union. You also have to take one of the hardest union tests around. Both of the A.D.s that I work with (and they are stellar) failed the test once.

Just understand that there is a strong feeling in the industry that if you are a P.A. for more than two years, there is something wrong with you. Even if this is not true, it can carry a stigma. I know a guy who has been a P.A. for like 6 years. He gets work constantly, but he is pretty much closed off to any other sort of work. Food for thought. If you need any referrals, I work for all the top agencies out here, so I might be able to help you network a bit. Good luck,
 
Also, if you are into union commercials, forget about the image of running around getting people bottled water and shite. That is what crafty is there for. They do the work, and do it happily - They're getting paid twice what you are, and everyone appreciates them more than anyone else on the crew. Now, music videos are another story...
 
I think the question's been answered: yes, getting a gig as a p.a. is definitely a first step on the way to becoming an A.D.

On the few commercials I worked on it actually seemed to me that the p.a.s were utilized often as junior production managers more than mere gophers and grunts. While they were still setting up chairs and tables for lunch, locking off the set, and making runs, they were also researching and booking heavy equipment and striking deals for the stuff. I was impressed.

That said, there is a lot of value even if you want to become a director to working your way up the chain in any craft. It provides you with insight and connections that you can use while shooting your own reel pieces during hiatus, not to mention a steady paycheck. I will reiterate that while on any job, the job should be your focus and not plotting how to manipulate the job to fit your ends to become a director, as that should happen organically (with a little nudge now and again... rules need to be broken on occassion).

And while working with different crews will build up your Rolodex, working largely for one production house for a few years offers many benefits for up and coming directors - I know one commercial p.a. who was being groomed for a directing gig after the boss saw his reel.

Also, on a side note, while its a long shot if you're interested in becoming an A.D. you should consider applying for the DGA's AD trainee program...
 
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