Work for free (not hire) and copyright

T

torig

Member
I have a question about copyright ownership. If someone asks you to shoot/edit something as a favor - in other words, for free - no contracts, nothing written or signed, 1) is that considered a work-for-hire? 2) If I chose not to finish the project (I shot it but did not edit) can she legally demand that I turn over the footage? (In case you guys are wondering, I am a female, so I did this truly because I wanted to help her) lol

I chose not to finish because she initially claimed to not have funds and couldn't afford to hire someone to do this part (a video), however she later let slip out that she has put 10k of her own money thus far into her project. I agreed to help, I did not agree to be taken advantage of, to put it mildly.

Thanks

Please do not stomp me down to a pulp with harsh words!!! :embarasse I may pop!
 
Do you have a contract or something in writing? According to my Lawyers, the person who is "The keeper Of The Goods"... meaning in your case... You as the producer of the work, has ownership if the project was shot by you and edited by you. You own the copyright to the footage... not her. That is the basic premise of the law. Some States may vary.
 
Ideally you should speak to an entertainment lawyer who is experienced in your state's laws.

I've retained footage, and I know others who have retained footage based on the client not adhering to the original agreement. I hold onto footage until i'm paid with clients that are paying cash/personal check.

Why don't you try to change the original agreement? Tell her this work took a lot more time and energy than you originally thought...and you would like to be paid for the footage. Or at the very least use it yourself for something.

Her pocketbook might open if she feels she now has to compete with you.

Did you shoot on her camera or your camera? I'm not sure if there is a difference there with the law.
 
Tommy K said:
Do you have a contract or something in writing? According to my Lawyers, the person who is "The keeper Of The Goods"... meaning in your case... You as the producer of the work, has ownership if the project was shot by you and edited by you. You own the copyright to the footage... not her. That is the basic premise of the law. Some States may vary.
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No, there was a contract or anything written other than an email she sent to me saying what she needed shot at one particular event. When I researched today, I came up with the same answer - that I have copyright unless I signed it over to her - which I didn't. I never signed anything. When I saw something mentioned about WFH, I wasn't sure if that would apply with this case because it was done as a "favor" and no money was exchanged, I wasn't considered employee. (Thanks for responding!)
 
thekeygun said:
Ideally you should speak to an entertainment lawyer who is experienced in your state's laws.

I've retained footage, and I know others who have retained footage based on the client not adhering to the original agreement. I hold onto footage until i'm paid with clients that are paying cash/personal check.

Why don't you try to change the original agreement? Tell her this work took a lot more time and energy than you originally thought...and you would like to be paid for the footage. Or at the very least use it yourself for something.

Her pocketbook might open if she feels she now has to compete with you.

Did you shoot on her camera or your camera? I'm not sure if there is a difference there with the law.
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I used my equipment, my tapes. I made all the decision on how I was going to shoot it.

I will contact someone Monday. In my contract it's stated that I have the copyright and that nothing would leave my office until paid in full. Because this was done to help a person out, and I wasn't nor complained about not being compensated because I truly did it to help, so I never thought a contract would be needed or it would come to something like this. Oh, and it got better...she had an attorney write me (email), details of which I probably shouldn't go into here. I thought to myself...she can pay thousands out of your pocket, and now an attorney, but she couldn't pay a photographer or a videographer anything because she doesn't have any funds...

The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous and I wish I had never offered to help in the first place. I have an idea of how I'm going to respond but wanted to see what the thoughts were here. I believe I own the CR and she is in no place to demand anything. I will, however, consult with an attorney on Monday before I do anything or make any contact at all.

I really appreciate your help!
 
WOW, I can't believe she consulted a lawyer and told you she didn't have any funds.

At least now you know to get everything in writing, even favors.
 
Is she having a lawyer threaten you???

For a lawyer to do so, it would likely be for some sort of breech of contract. But for a contract to be valid I believe there would have to be some sort of compensation (consideration) given or promised to you in some form for your efforts.

No contract, you are the owner. Copyright and all. You never signed a WFH agreement did you? Then that's out. In my experience WFH agreements need to be fairly specific and it does not sound like it would be appropriate in a case like this.

Tell her that if she wants the finished product she should pay a reasonable fee. I really do not think you are being unreasonable, given the facts you have outlined. Otherwise the project stays on your computers' hard drive.
 
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torig said:
I have a question about copyright ownership. If someone asks you to shoot/edit something as a favor - in other words, for free - no contracts, nothing written or signed, 1) is that considered a work-for-hire? 2) If I chose not to finish the project (I shot it but did not edit) can she legally demand that I turn over the footage? ...
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Worthy of note is that the mere fact of being paid for a job (if you had been paid for it, that is) does not, in and of itself, make the job a work-for-hire. Work-for-hire comes about basically because either you are a regular, W-2 employee of the person for whom you're shooting and are acting within the scope of your regular job duties (a camera operator at a TV station, for example) or you have a written contract with your "client" that explicitly states you are making a 'work-for-hire' using those exact words and transferring copyright on the finished product from you to the client upon payment of your fee. An independent freelancer working on a project at the request of a client is not an employee and his work is not a work-for-hire unless there is that aformentioned written agreement making it so. While there are a few other exceptions that don't generally apply to filmmaking, essentially absent one of those conditions it is NOT a work-for-hire and you own the copyright to the work you have created. As I said, the mere fact the client may have paid you to create that work doesn't in itself change that.

I am not a lawyer but it appears to me from what you've said that you own the footage and there's no way she can compel you to turn it over. Now if she paid some expenses, bought the tapes you used for example, she probably would be entitled to reimbursment for those out-of-pocket costs she has incurred for the materials etc. You wouldn't be able to repurpose the footage and use it elsewhere - you'd still need her release for that - but since you retain the copyright, even if you DID turn it over to her she couldn't legally use it without your permission either.
 
I wanted to correct a typo I had earlier. I wrote:

"No, there was a contract or anything written other than an email..."

I meant to type: No, there was no contract or anything written...

Thank you Steve for clarifying the WFH. You answered my question.

Sewolla: No, there was no breach of contract. I never received any monies. She never purchased any supplies. I used my own. So, I couldn't see how she could make claim to anything.

The situation is just wrong in so many levels. Actually, what you've read is just the bottom line of the whole ordeal. Like thekeygun said, now I know to get everything in writing...even favors. A lesson well learned. It's people like this that make it hard to give an inch.
 
Update

Update

I just wanted to give an update of this incident. I found an entertainment/copyright atty and explained the situation to him. He told me as you guys have said, I am the author and copyright owner of the works that I create.
"At no time was there a transfer of rights, nor could there have been without a written instrument. In light of the foregoing, your client is not in a position to require the production of the proceeds of the videography services and/or to prevent her from using and/or refraining from using the works in any manner she sees fit."
​
This is what was written to them as I ended up paying him (my atty) for his services because I have zero tolerance for foolishness and I knew that was where all of this was heading with her. So, to nip it in the bud, I made her an offer. I was willing to transfer my works and all copies for a small fee which basically covered what I have lost by "helping" her. That was my offer. She was given a week. No negotiations. She didn't take it.

Will I work for free again? Sure I will, but my new policy requires a $500 administrative fee to write up the contract, $500 processing fee, both nonrefundable of course. There is also the new $100/hr camera usage charge and $100/hr editing station fee! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
She was trying to get her online magazine going. I don't know specifically though. It was brought up in conversation because she was 40 minutes late meeting me. Apparently, she was having trouble that day withdrawing $1000 from her acct to pay an event coordinator. So in the conversation she mentioned she had put in well over 9K of her own money into this thing but once she reaches a certain point in her finances, she was going to call it quits if she didn't start getting a return. I kept quiet but made a mental note of that conversation.

But get this...one week later, everything came to light:
She was going to send me and another person to the west coast to cover an event that was happening there. She was taking care of the flight and hotel. This was talked about 2 months in advance and confirmed with her. (I also had to turn down a gig since I wasn't going to be here.)

One week before I was supposed to leave, she calls me to tell me she never got my ticket! She only bought the other ticket for the person who was doing the interviews but "forgot" mine. She then wanted me to help her find a videographer in LA (off Craig's List) who could shoot it and would pay $200 to shoot for 2 hours and was going to pay additional if he edited it. She then turned around and told me there was a 3-day event (the same weekend) that she wanted me to shoot here (about 40 miles away) for FREE!

So...after I got off the floor from laughing so hard, I began explaining to her why she was getting nothing more from me. Emails went back and forth, she cc'd her atty who then wrote to me isntructing me to turn over all footage, etc. to her. That was when this thread came to life.
 
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