Wired v Wireless lav

L

laughingcrows

Member
I'm considering using a Rode lav into an Zoom H1. Here it is in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjn7CmUjZlI

It's for a small production I'm working on. I'll be the one-man crew with three actors (1 kit for each actor) I'll have a few shots indoors and in a car while the rest will be in a forest far from town. My budget for sound gear is about $2,700. I've already have a Zoom H4n and an AKG cardiod. Hopefully they'll be useful for some indoor shots.

I was considering sennhieser G3 lavs, a Sign Video ENG-44 mixer, recording into Zoom H4n, but convenience and budget are forcing me to consider the wired option.

I'm also considering setting up a Rode NTG-3 on a tripod a few feet away as a back up. I'm hoping it will catch some dialogue plus ambient.

Anyone have any experience with a similar setup?


http://www.dvestore.com/products/RODE-Lavalier-Mic.html
http://www.dvestore.com/products/Zoom-H1-Handy-Recorder.html
http://www.dvestore.com/products/RODE-NTG%252d3-Shotgun-mic.html or http://www.dvestore.com/products/DVcreator-Location-Sound-Package-1-%2d-RODE-NTG%2d2.html
 
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I would rather rent then.... It's better to rent very good material for about 250 $ for one day, rather then wanting to buy for "only" 2700 and being fooled actualy
 
dre83 said:
I would rather rent then.... It's better to rent very good material for about 250 $ for one day, rather then wanting to buy for "only" 2700 and being fooled actualy
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Hi dre83, thanks for the reply. Sounds like you have some experience with the Rode Lav and the Zoom H1 together and found them completey unacceptable. Could you provide some examples comparing them to whatever it was that I should be renting? Your solution only gives me ten days to shoot and that's just not enough time.
 
so you're going to use a recorder which won't be monitored and possibly stick a shotgun mic on a tripod? all of those scenarios are recipes for disaster. if you're mic'ing more than one subject things start to get really difficult.

your best bet is to take that budget and find a sound guy. probably a young, lesser experienced would def do leaps and bounds better than what you're attempting to do.
 
I would strongly suggest going against the lav/H1. This option gives you no way to monitor the audio while recording. What if on of the actors sat on the H1 and hit the stop button. Unless you listened to the take afterward there wouldn't be anyway to know, and taking the time to listen to each of them would be three times the length of the take for every good take. There are many better ways, but if your willing to spend the time it could work. Note, you'll annoy anyone else working on the film as they will have to wait around a lot.

The best thing would be to try and find a professional sound person to work for your budget, or student with gear. Either would give you not only the gear you need, but someone would knows what they're doing, and experience is worth more than gear.

If that's not possible, I'd do the other option. The H1 brings a lot of problems and added time.
 
Rent the Sennheiser. You can get a G3 (or a G2, I can't remember) for about $80 for four days, which includes shipping. Run that into a Zoom, clipped onto the sound person's belt, with a good pair of headphones plugged in to monitor. That's if you actually need a lav, which I find doubtful.

Why is it so absolutely necessary that you not have any help crewing? One man crews on narrative shoots are usually a bad idea. Just get a friend to hold a boom and listen to the recorder, it's not that hard to find someone else who would like to start out on something small. And I'm sure you have friends.
 
laughingcrows said:
Hi dre83, thanks for the reply. Sounds like you have some experience with the Rode Lav and the Zoom H1 together and found them completey unacceptable. Could you provide some examples comparing them to whatever it was that I should be renting? Your solution only gives me ten days to shoot and that's just not enough time.
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Re-read it 54645665464 times :-p

If you can find the combination "rode lavs are bad"...then reply again :-p


Rode lavs are not bad, the zoom H1 is not bad...the combination is not bad...but the goal is...not so good. A zoom H1 has no "level control on the flow" for example...it's not like a mixer where you can easely turn a button.
So for kind of "witness sound" it's good enough. But to do "real sound" where people are not trained to speak at one level and suddenly start shouting and suddenly start whispering...a combination of rode lav-2channel mixer-zoom H1 would be better. Attached to the sound person NOT the person speaking.

But in this case you have 3 people... The easiest and cheapest way "renting a small mixer with a boom". And do you realy need 10 days and more ??? I'm sure what you want to do, you can do it in 3 days. Just don't start arguying about a small detail for hours and hours. Ow and finding a anoying sound source is NOT a waste of time. Arguying about a spoon laying 3inch or 4 inch from the plate is a waste of time...

You do need another someone to help you. If possible a soundguy, can be a student, but someone learning in that direction. Although, don't take benefit of students...

As i see it you're making a shortmovie ? Well then you need a crew...it's as simple as that... You need at least a DOP, a soundguy, an assistant. And you...you have to be busy with directing, with arguying with the actors.

I'm not talking about handling with sound isues like fridges, heaters, drunk people next door, music next door, airplanes, helicopters, hoovercrafts, buzz sounds from lights, noisy neighbours, the guy next door cutting the grass, construction works.... yet.
 
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dre83 said:
Re-read it 54645665464 times :-p

If you can find the combination "rode lavs are bad"...then reply again :-p.
Click to expand...

What's your deal Man? I don't appreciate being told "I'm being fooled." I realize what I'm proposing is a stretch, but I hoped I could get some real suggestions here without being insulted or getting into some sort of creepy pissing match with you. I got it - you live here - I'm new - my idea is bad - move along now.
 
laughingcrows said:
What's your deal Man? I don't appreciate being told "I'm being fooled." I realize what I'm proposing is a stretch, but I hoped I could get some real suggestions here without being insulted or getting into some sort of creepy pissing match with you. I got it - you live here - I'm new - my idea is bad - move along now.
Click to expand...

I never said that YOU are fooled (YOU as in you, being laughingcrows). It was in general I said it... So not you personaly as being the only one reading this, but in general.

Don't take "fooled" to literaly"
 
For 2,700.00 you should be able to get a great kit.

JuicedLink Mixer/Preamo 299.00 for the 2 channel with phantom.
G3 wireless 600.00 a channel.
At4053b hyper for indoor dialogue 430.00 at B&H.
Rode lavs 250.00 a pop, + 30.00 to get an XLR adapter for wired use
Rode NTG-3 700.00 or Rode NTG-2 for 269.00
You have a recorder, but even a sweet 8 channel (really 6) Tascam DR-680 for 800.00 at B&H.

Lets see for one man operation - 3 actors - 3 G3 systems (with lavs included) 1,800.00 and a DR680 @ 800.00 = 2,600.00. Much less if you get Rode lavs and hard wire them. The "fail" issue here is trying to run both camera and sound with one person. With another person you could just use a boom mic, mixer and the recorder you already have. It seems doable as a one man band, but your work most likely will suffer because you will have to think about audio and video, and both jobs take one's full attention.
 
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