Will my college "own" it?

M

MeAgain

Carbonite Member
I'm finishing up a student film to be used as my capstone (senior project to get my B.A.) and I'm the director, producer, editor, writer, cinematographer, caterer, etc...


Anyway, I remember a few years back some professor saying that if you hand in a project as an assignment to be graded, the college officially owns it or something like that. Any truth to this? I want to submit this to film festivals later on and I want to avoid complications.
 
Did you sign an agreement stating that you hand over your rights on assignment submission? Are you using school equipment to shoot it, and if so did you sign an agreement that may have included this when you took the risk to borrow whatever it was? There could be arguments either way, depending on the details.
 
It depends on the college. Some schools say that they own it, since you used their equipment and whatnot, whereas other schools say the students own it. You should check with someone in the department at your school who knows.
 
MeAgain said:
I'm finishing up a student film to be used as my capstone (senior project to get my B.A.) and I'm the director, producer, editor, writer, cinematographer, caterer, etc...


Anyway, I remember a few years back some professor saying that if you hand in a project as an assignment to be graded, the college officially owns it or something like that. Any truth to this? I want to submit this to film festivals later on and I want to avoid complications.
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Usually the college/school owns the mechanical rights due to equipment usage, but will assist you in the best placement for the film in festivals or the web. You own the intellectual/performance rights, so if you have problems with the school you can re-shoot the script with your own gear/crew.

This is done to protect the school from works that don't represent the values of the school.
 
BPistone said:
Usually the college/school owns the mechanical rights due to equipment usage, but will assist you in the best placement for the film in festivals or the web. You own the intellectual/performance rights, so if you have problems with the school you can re-shoot the script with your own gear/crew.

This is done to protect the school from works that don't represent the values of the school.
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This is not universally true. For example, many universities require masters and doctoral candidates to sign over the copyright to their thesis as a condition of receiving the degree.

Mechanical rights deal with distribution of multiple copies of a work and have nothing to do with the equipment used to produce it - an artist that records a cover of a previously released song requires a license for mechanical rights in order to distribute copies of the recording, for example.
 
As my law instructor answers most questions with, it's all in the contract. We can speculate all we want, but it all means nothing until that bit of information is known.
 
I signed absolutely no forms pertaining to anything, I just figured it was some sort of "if you go to or school" unsaid type of thing.


AND, I didn't use their equipment to film- I'm using a mac in the mac lab to edit, but I filmed using my own sound and video equipment, my own crew (none of which were students in the department), etc. The only forms I have are release forms for my actors, and the only thing I'm doing is editing in their lab and submitting it as a project- the school really didn't assist me as far as the filming goes.
 
If you signed nothing, they have no rights to anything.

There are also serious questions that have arisen as to whether ANY of these film schools could defend what they say are "their rights" in a court of law, and most lawyers agree they could not. For my part in that, having read the issues, I would agree that no school has a claim to copyright over any work produced while the students are there unless it was funded by the school itself in whole or in significant portion. If the student financed the film completely, there is not a snowball's chance in hell the school would win in court no matter what was signed or not signed. If you put up $25,000 for your thesis film and wrote-directed it, no matter whether you used the equipment they own or not doesn't make any difference, it's your film by virtue of it being your money and your idea. You pay money to go to the school to have access to their equipment, which is exactly what any lawyer would argue in court, and they have no claim to copyright simply by you being enrolled in their school or using their facilities. I have shot at numerous studios, I certainly wasn't giving away my copyright to them, and I've rented equipment or borrowed it from other people, I wasn't giving away my copyright to them either ;) It's a ridiculous argument on the part of a film school and completely unethical that they would have any claim to copyright on a work that a student produces.

Now if it was grant money the school put up to make the film, that's a different case. There has been a lot of disgust directed at some of the bigger film schools over the past decade over these issues.

It's another reason why I think most film schools are worthless and overpriced. Look at USC, the best film school in the world arguably, so you are supposed to pay $40,000 a year to go there, then you DON'T own the film that you pay money to make (they should pay for it, frankly), and oh by the way not everyone even gets to make a film? That's ridiculous! You could waste more than $100,000 there and not even graduate with your own thesis film. Some committee decides whether your script is good enough to be made into a thesis film. HA! What a joke.
 
Ha, my school isn't that big name or major. I put up all the money- the only involvement the school had was the editing lab (and use of an edirol sound recorder for 3 or 4 sounds). And I paid a seperate lab fee for that as well.

The ONLY binding connection between my school and this project is that I'm handing it in as a grade. That's it, nothing more.

So then, I'm curious, has this been a major legal problem of the past few years? People battling their schools over the rights to their own fillms? How insane. Seems like schools hinder more than help these days....
 
MeAgain said:
Ha, my school isn't that big name or major. I put up all the money- the only involvement the school had was the editing lab (and use of an edirol sound recorder for 3 or 4 sounds). And I paid a seperate lab fee for that as well.

The ONLY binding connection between my school and this project is that I'm handing it in as a grade. That's it, nothing more.

So then, I'm curious, has this been a major legal problem of the past few years? People battling their schools over the rights to their own fillms? How insane. Seems like schools hinder more than help these days....
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What about policy documents and manuals that you may have agreed to abide by when you applied for admission or enrolled? Are you sure there's not a phrase in the student manual or handbook that says that all student work submitted becomes the property of the school and a document somewhere saying you agree to abide by all the rules and policies of the institution while enrolled?
 
You really need to start with the school policy and work from there. They certainly can make them owning some(all?) rights to it as part of your submitting it for a grade. I'd bet your school has a document that explains all this(which you did agree to follow when you enrolled). It's very possible this isn't a problem at all. Though I suspect you wouldn't have asked about it if that were the case.

While they may have a weak claim on your work if you don't submit it as part of a class/thesis, doing so changes everything. And yes there have been lawsuits over this.

Once you find their policy you'll know what you are working against. The next step would be to talk with someone in the student affairs/student ombudsmen office. No one here can help you though, you need to talk to the school.

In the event you cannot get the rights you want in your work, you might want to consider creating something else to fullfill your class requirement.
 
What about a slightly different edited version of the same film? Would they likely own the rights to the images, or whatever I submitted as a whole? I know I need to look at the policy, but just curious- I could just give them a different edit with a different name.
 
Editing(slight or otherwise) doesn't make a new work, so I'd say no, it won't fix your root issue. But at that point you have stepped firmly into the land of legal representatives required. Trying to trick your way around an agreement without a complete legal review is pretty much a bad idea.

I also suspect your making a bigger deal out of this than it is. In all likelihood their own policy will give you enough control/interest in your work that you will be able to exploit it to your heart's content. I can't imagine any school that wouldn't let you enter it into film festivals and even distribute it. They may however get a cut of any proceeds. They may also require it have certain credits applied. Joint copyrights generally allow both partners to exploit the work, provided all parties are compensated.

Odds of a student piece created where you did all those roles being the next giant money-making masterpiece is zero. So don't sweat the small details. You'll make a lot of work in your lifetime. Don't get hung up on this one piece. Your next movie will be better. Your tenth film will be awesome.
 
I'm not all that worried about it, but I hate my school, their digital filmmaking program would have people gasping (some kid is graduating and he doesn't know what a tripod does- I'm not kidding) and the thought of them ever claiming ownership or interfering with my work, even a small one, would really bother me. Not saying I'm going to be famous or mega rich, but I know schools tend to use alumni's names and work if they meet any success down the road, and if I do, it certainly won't be because of what they taught me or any kind of incouragement- probably the opposite.
 
You know its interesting, a school I went to uses a prominent Hollywood Director as alumni and lists him as faculty.
I find out when I get there that he actually got KICKED OUT of the program and finished at USC I believe. They were able to list him as faculty because he comes back to speak from time to time.

They didn't own any of his films, but he didn't make any great ones until he got to USC.

just thought I would share that with you.
 
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