Why you shouldn't buy on eBay.

J

Jacques_Meov

Carbonite Member
I reported an infamous pawnshop to eBay about their egragarious nature of prevaricating in regards to the camcorders they are selling. (A nice way to say THEY LIE ABOUT THEIR ITEMS.) They post that a Sony DSR-PD100A is miniDV, not DVCAM. They list Canon L2's as mini DV, etc.
The response is the quote I got from some Arianna, an employee of eBay:
"As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the
items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of
sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot
ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction."

Wow, nice way of saying: 'We make money off of people posting ANYTHING on our site. We take no responsibility WHATSOEVER for anyones actions. There is fraud, theft, and out-right scamming going on, but we don't care, as long as the posters are paying our ever increasing fees, our management continues to receive ever higher compensation packages, and our shareholders are happy with ever increasing returns. You get screwed, too bad, we're legally protected. Good day!'

The above pawnshop is a "powerseller" with over 30,000 feedbacks, read that 30,000+ times they've paid fees to feebay. No wonder they'll do nothing.
Hey, aren't the Feds still investigating eBay? Hope so, going to pay for a new DVX100a with the profits from selling feebay short this summer!
 
I agree. Although I know that there a a ton of people conducting business on EBay without incident; the horror stories are way too rampant for me to get involved. The simple fact that EBay takes no responsibility whatsoever is utter nonsense and the stat of 30,000 fee's paid is testament enough that Ebay will not do anything about it.

Ebay is responsible in my eyes and until they fix this; I'm not playing ball. Ebay needs to create a mandatory Escrow that they CONTROL with no other options. Oh, but that would require employees and investment and responsibility and accountabiltiy and ....
 
Sad isn't it? Along similar lines; companies have such bad customer interaction and support. It's pathetic. Part of the reason I was somewhat shocked to find that people from Panasonic browsed these boards and interacted with people. Absolutely amazing.
 
Ebay has a ton of volume, there's just too much happening to check every post, however they do need to be more stringent on high-ticket items...there's too many people getting ripped off out there. I don't know what the answer is, but a manditory escrow for items over $500 might be a good start...there would be a lot fewer people selling sneaky junk online if they were forced to let their buyers have a "trial period" before the funds were finally transfered.

Of course, there's tons of fraud in the "escrow" world...but that's another can of worms I don't want to eat.
 
Fastest thing they could do is require Paypal or escrow.com. Next thing they could do was block the phishers that send you "second chance" offers through their own eBay mail service for items that SOMEONE else sold. Final thing is to encode the pictures that someone posts so that scammers can't "borrow" them to use later. Final thing is to require serial numbers of actual units. Total cost for all of this? actually it would be a net gain as they own excrow.com and Paypal. Therefore additional profit generation. But then they "open" themselves up to legal action for allowing fraud.
Let's face it: The net was made for fraud; if not made for it, then IDEALLY suited for it.
Word of note: Eastern European sites are the biggest scammers out there. And thanks to a little known glitch in Euronet, they "open" locations in London. That's why there are so many items on eBay US that are listed in pound sterling. Problem with Eurofraud is that Europe authorities despise the US and don't care to prevent this fraud. I've worked with US/Europe authorties on a couple of scammers. Only with a LOT OF PRESSURE from the FBI will even Scotland Yard get involved. INTERPOL/EUROPA? FAGETTABOTIT!
 
I got on there last week for the first time in a long time. What a joke! I wouldn't even buy anything on ther if it was my own brother selling it. It seemed like virtually everything I looked at in the video section was a scam. I'm sure some are legitimate, and some people have had success buying there, but I wouldn't touch it myself.
 
I use eBay and am happy with it, although I just buy videos and small stuff from standard users like myself. I don't think I'd risk thousands of dollars on video equiptment though, but I think that if you don't bid on anything that looks "too good to be true" it'd generally be safe.
 
But remember, feeBay is merely a forum that you the user take 100% of the risk using! If eBay made condoms, the FDA would shutter them in a fortnight!
 
I've spent prob 5 minutes on eBay since they started selling. I know there are a lot of legit transactions going on because I hear about them, but no escrow=no business IMO. I found a DVX on Amazon of all places...selling used. Guy would not use escrow.com instead wanted to use his favorite escrow site which had typos and other problems. You're better off buying from a reputable dealer and paying more then trying to find the cheap deal somewhere else. In the years since the internet became a force, the word 'cheap' has become a red flag word for me.
 
I've used eBay hundreds of times without incident. Whereas I've been ripped off (or almost) by many storefront operations (listed in the phonebook). As we all have. Fraud, theft, and scammers are everywhere. Good luck getting rid of them! There will never be a system in which scammers won't find away to take advantage of it.

ebay makes millions of transactions every day. I am sure that 99% of the transactions are legit and positive experiences. But we always focus in on the 1% bad. Nothing will ever be 100% reliable (or they won't ever say it). Even a condom, Jacques - Imagine if Trojan stated "100% effective." They would be responsible for raising millions of babies! :)

Yes, eBay should do everything in its power to stop fraud and they do try. (I have seen numerous listings removed.) The last thing they want is a few bad headline stories to send their stock falling and become a dot-com has-been.

The letter you received was a typical "we are not responsible for the accuracy of the ads" letter that their lawyers wrote up. Just imagine if they did take responsibility for every listing. They would be out of business from lawsuit after lawsuit and then millions of people would not have a venue to make positive transactions, because of a small fraction of scum that use their site.

Obviously the PowerSeller has made positive transactions in the past. If people got a Hi8 camera when the ad said MiniDV they would post a negative feedback and (if this occured more than once) the seller would change his business practices or use a different name and start-over again. Scum by any other name smells just as bad.

"Buyer beware." That quote came about long before there was eBay and will still be relevant long after eBay fades away.
 
I look at ebay as a tool that you have to know how to use, and you have to know it's limits.
I have bought some things on ebay, but there are many things that i would not buy on ebay. A DVX for instance is an item that I would never buy on ebay. Just too many things can go wrong. You need to do your homework. You need to find out everything you can about the seller. If that information isn't available, don't buy. Keep in close contact with the seller. If you live in the states, don't buy from anybody that isn't from the states, unless it is an item that can't be found anywhere but the location that you are buying from. Don't send cash, check, or any service that you don't know legitimatly. USE paypal, it is safe and secure. If the seller doesn't want to comply with these things, buy from someone else.
I recently bought a camera crane from someone on ebay. It turned out not to be what I had ordered. I sent it back. I used Paypal. The seller said that his paypal account was frozen (bunch of BS) and couldn't pay me back. I filed a complaint with Paypal. 10 days later, I had my money back, and the seller then actually did have his paypal account frozen. Long story short, know who you are buying from, be wary of scams or anything that doesn't seem right. Contact the seller by phone, and make sure that you are in contact by email constantly thoughout the transaction, before any money is sent. Will this guarantee your safety, not 100% but it will allow you to get some good deals on ebay.
 
Isara, a couple of things regarding your post.
On items like DVDs, pc games, small knick knacks, eBay has a FANTASTIC reputation. In fact on things below $5, eBay is actually safer, on average, than a non-national store, and especially safer than a garage store.
BUT, on items of value, $300+, eBay fails. Example, Canon XL1s. I've been keeping a databank of photos/item descriptions on the listings of XL1s's since October of 2003. (For those that claim the prices of the XL1s are "holding" at $2000, I have the proof otherwise!) In a two week period of listings from February 14-28, 2005, 38.7% of all listings were de-listed for fraudulant purposes. (I know they were delisted for this purpose because I TURNED THEM IN; everyone was pay with cash/wire transfer/money order AND were using the photos of another users item, or just copied the listing and used it again. There was a truck driver in CA that sold his Canon XL1s five times in six months!) So to say that I'm focusing on the "1%" of the bad, is quite incorrect. If you'd like to rephrase that to I'm focusing on the 38.7% that are bad, I'll accept that! Which then raises the question that that figrue is a little too high, don't you think?
As to having numerous listings de-listed...yea, been there, done that, to the tune of 686 times since Sept. 2002. (Been keeping track of that figure too. Man, if I could have gotten all the Canon XL1s/GL2/Sony DSR-300 at the sub-$500 marks that I "bought" them at, then resold them at a pawn shop even, I figure that I'd have enough to shoot a feature film with awesome DV equipment/sound/lights/some professional acting talent, AND have enough to transfer onto 35mm film!
As to the power seller...yeah, sure they have negatives, like 87 in the past month alone, but when taken against there 30,000+ rating, most people don't see the danger in them, (after all they're a 92.3% positive rated seller. NOTE: any lister below 95% is considered a questionable member when they have over 125 ratings.) And when you read their listing and see that they retaliate with negatives against those that post negative against them, how many post positive though they've been screwed? (Read their postitives and see some like this, 'I was screwed. Never again with these jokers!')
As to their letter, it was actually an email, so technically NOT a letter in the standard legal sense, I understand their wishing to limit their liability. However, there are many class action lawsuits against them, plus 19 investigations by state AGs into their business practices; the fraud factor being the most prevelant reason for the investigation.
I would give eBay a pass on the fraud thing, caveat emptor et al, but when they keep the posting fees for fraudulant postins, even after de-listing, they have profitted from potential criminal activity. (Joe Scammer posts an AG-DVX100a for $999. Cash/MO only. Someone complains, it's delisted. The $5-35 posting fee is forfeited; to eBay, who then takes that directly to their bottom line. This is profitting from potential fraud.) Should they give it back to the scammer? No, but accumulating that for anti-fraud expenses/restitution fund, seems a more seemly and ethical and POSITIVE MARKETTING ANGLE use of the money.
 
isara said:
Fraud, theft, and scammers are everywhere. Good luck getting rid of them! There will never be a system in which scammers won't find away to take advantage of it.
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This brings up an interesting point:

We are at the point where everything is possible - just-in-time manufacturing, instant distribution and consumption, news flashes flying around the globe in milliseconds. 'Caveat Emptor' has never been more true than today. If you lived in the nineteenth century, your small-town or village (where most people lived before we started migrating to cities and, ultimately, the today's global village) probably had one or two meatshops, a dairyshop, a bakery, a few tailors, maybe there was a photographer in a nearby town.

If a shopkeeper screwed you more than once, you'd have an effective way of spreading the word. Not that there were no scammers, but they were easier to get back at.

There were fewer people, too. If someone wrote a novel, the potential effective impact on the rest of humanity was about four times higher than today - taking only the population growth in account.... When Immanuel Kant wrote 'Critique of Pure Reason' back in 1700s, the impact it must have on literate people was probably a thousand times higher than the same text would have if written today.

What I am getting at is that with population growth and faster spreading of information, humanity has a challenge: how to control itself without falling into the trap of totalitarianism.

This applies to a lot of issues that have been discussed here recently - eBay's responsibility to protect its customers, politicians trying to put more control on what we watch, or those pesky airport security checkpoints. All these are consequences of (or our reactions to) some lunatics somewhere having no morals. The question is - how long will the rest of humanity resist them before falling into 'it doesn't matter' mode, thus making the problem even worse?

Sorry for my ramblings...
 
Jacques_Meov said:
I've been keeping a databank of photos/item...
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Hehe - looks like you need to get out more often - unless you are doing this as a research for a documentary or something... :grin:

Otherwise: I agree with what you are saying - great post! :thumbsup:
 
Xcheck - I agree 100% with your post. Make that 99% :) I have anything but a "it doesn't matter" attitude. My friends and family would LOL to that. Heck, the reason I've been in Thailand for the last 2 years is so I can make a difference and prevent Thai people from going down the same dangerous path as us. I teach all my students to rise up against "the man" and beware of false advertising, bad western influence, and zombies. :) I'm even in the middle of making an educational video (if I can get off my lazy butt) to donate to all the schools. But I can see how my post could be considered pessimistic. I'm shocked I wrote it too!

When it comes to eBay I am riding the fence. I have not had any bad experiences and have only heard, until now, of typical attempts at fraud from sellers or buyers (which, sadly, is common for any sales venue - newspapers, tv ads, phonebooks, websites). This is the first time I've heard of any attempts at fraud from eBay, itself. I agree we should do everything in our power to prevent fraud and get rid of the scum of the Earth. (I'm trying via education.) Sounds like Jacques has already made a difference and has helped prevent numerous people from getting ripped off (good job!). I too have reported numerous listings to eBay (not as many as Jacques - Xcheck is right, you do need to get out more).

I was not aware of the details of Jacques complaint, until now. If eBay has pulled previous ads from this power seller, then yes, they have a responsibility to remove them completely. If they don't then they are obviously supporting fraud and will not receive my business in the future. And any powerseller with 92% positive feedback (over 30,000 transactions) is a huge risk. Hopefully people can do the math and stop buying from them. (Can you PM me their user id so I can check them out?)

I had a fight with PayPal last year because I wanted to close my account. You would not believe the circle they had me running in, FOR 4 MONTHS! Their generic (computer generated) responses had my blood boiling. My responses looked like a Manifesto about "the man" taking advantage of the little guy. I guess they think if they make it difficult enough you won't bother closing the account. They were wrong and I eventually won the staring contest. So far eBay hasn't had to receive any of my Manifesto's.
 
I have never and probably will never buy anything online. I'm one of those touchy feelly kind of guys, I like to see and touch the goods before I hand over my hard earned cash. I always think buying off ebay is like going into a store sealed in a box with only your arms and hands sticking out and your holding your wallet...Outside the box!
 
The $5-35 posting fee is forfeited; to eBay, who then takes that directly to their bottom line. This is profitting from potential fraud.)
Click to expand...

*sigh* I got scammed on eBay for a PAL XL1s... never got the money back. The signs were obvious at the time, but only when you know what to look for... and eBay isn't effective at telling you until after the fact. But eBay isn't the only one who makes $$$ off the scammers. Every time a successful scam goes through, companies like Western Union make a mint off the wire transactions. If you look at the scam rates, both of these companies make millions off such activity.

Furthermore, don't think for a minute that any of these companies have any interest in providing customer service, or protecting customers. Just try to get in touch with a real person at eBay - it's pretty much impossible.
 
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