Why FCP?

Envision said:
I used to ask that same question of thisiswells & other FCP users I'd see in the Vegas forum, then found out how/why they did it. They'd just look at new posts & reply to topics/threads that caught their interest.
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Yeah, it's good to keep up on what is going on, as each app has it place. I was jsut thinking that maybe you had seen the light ... :evil: :grin:

Envision said:
Now that you've even mentioned it now, just typing this here makes me feel like a cat wrapped in bacon, trying to walk unnoticed through a dog kennel.
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Now there is a great visual picture!!! :happy:
 
waltind said:
It is my understanding that the academic version is not upgradable at all. That if you want to get the next version, you have to buy it again at the student discount price ...
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Hmm, another reason to consider Vegas. The student discount applied to it is actually for the same exact pro version that everyone else pays full price for ... they don't have various versions. There's also no restrictions on use, to my knowledge ... just a discount for students.
 
waltind said:
It is my understanding that the academic version is not upgradable at all. That if you want to get the next version, you have to buy it again at the student discount price ...
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I think that is the case also. I just phrased it badly because that was my personal situation - when I finished film school and upgraded to the newer version I saved money because I had ignored the student discount. It seems mad and irrational at the time but makes sense in the long run.

It also means that you can legally make money with the software whilst doing your studies.
 
Envision said:
Hmm, another reason to consider Vegas. The student discount applied to it is actually for the same exact pro version that everyone else pays full price for ... they don't have various versions. There's also no restrictions on use, to my knowledge ... just a discount for students.
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FCP used to be that way, that is until version 4, or 4.5, when they started printing Adademic Version on the Box and the startup screen. Now as mentioned by MMM it is smarter to buy the "full" version and then you only have to pay for the upgrades.
 
MattC said:
I was going to ask this same question Ryan, I have always made subclips as you describe with 24pa footage. Brian, what do you mean, am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
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I think Brian has stated that FCP does not have the ability to use start stop detection and automatically make the supclips in 24pa footage. I have not edited a 24pa project in FCP. Is this the case?
 
Well that's logging clips to bins to begin with. No, if you use capture now, it will not seperate them based on starts and stops. But why would you want to do that??? I guess for a small project it might be nice, but I log a lot of information when I log clips. I really like FCP's batch logging feature and that's how I bring footage in. I log all my clips off line, and then FCP brings them in for me with all the information I entered in place.

Matt
 
I have to second Matt's sentiment, on any professional project you're going to have many clips and takes, etc that you'll want to log in by hand, not rely on a home movie-esque feature (ala imovie) to guess for you.

I will say though that it's tricky, and unless you have experience at how FCP likes to work, the logging process isn't exactly user friendly.
 
But, iMovie is not guessing! What iMovie is doing, along with Avid, Vegas, and others is creating subclips based on a specific attribute of the metadeta recorded on tape, the time/date field. When there is a lapse in time, the software begins a new file. It's simple and it works.

As I see it, this is a valuable feature for every type of filmmaker, especially for narrative work when each take begins with a slate and the thumbnail generated by the software is the first frame of each clip; you end up with every thumbnail being the slate!

Having this feature allows the user to access to all their tapes on a massive HDD or RAID and then sort it all out. Have a bad shot? Just delete the clip and it's done. You never have to cue tapes or punch in timecodes. If the timecode data from the tape is stored in the file on disk, then it should be able to recapture only a specific shot/file/take if necessary. This method shouldn't have to create less "Pro" results than old fashioned Log and Capture.

"Pro" users make it sound like a consumer function. And, frankly, I can't see why anyone would prefer to manually log in and out points for each clip on each tape when it could be done automatically by software.

Try converting a tape library to hard drive and you'll see my frustration.

And, FWIW, the manual says it should do this, accurately, but it hasn't since they introduced 24p timelines. In other words, it has never worked.

Either all of this is true, or there is something seriously wrong with my camera and both of my computers. Perhaps I need to change settings on the camera?

In every other area, FCP is a dream come true! :)
 
As I see it, this is a valuable feature for every type of filmmaker, especially for narrative work when each take begins with a slate and the thumbnail generated by the software is the first frame of each clip; you end up with every thumbnail being the slate!
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I'm with you.

In fact, when I shoot; I am completely aware that this is how I'll capture (Vegas). I love it.

And after capturing, I get to name each clip. "Scene 1a - Take 1"

That method of logging in and every point is something I have never explored and can't see wasting time doing it. Is this an old school thing or what?

It just seems to be 'going around your elbow to get to your asshole' in procedure. Come on guys; think abstract; don't be so linear.
 
John, your right, it may be old school. ****, I still make a handwritten log in a spiral notebook. I know, it is old fashion, but I like having that notebook. In the long run, It saves me time, because I can rough out a "pencil edit" from the log and swiftly cut together a rough cut in no time. The couple of times I used the auto subclips, which was on footage I was not that familiar with and was unslated, it took me more time to sort through.

Of course, that doesn't mean that this feature is not important. It should be supported in FCP. maybe if we ***** enough, Apple will listen. I'll ask my good friends, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy to help us out. :thumbsup:
 
David G. Smith said:
It should be supported in FCP.
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See, that's the problem. It IS supported by FCP. It just doesn't put the markers in the right places after pulldown removal, making the entire command worthless.

Users Manual, Volume 1, Page 208:
Strategies for Logging and Capturing Video
...
Capture the entire contents of a DV-format source tape, then use the DV Start/Stop Detection command to break it into individual clips automatically.
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Page 210:
Final Cut Pro's timecode break detection features let you easily and cleanly capture the entire contents of the source tapes without inadvertently introducing timecode errors. You can save a lot of time, especially when capturing DV clips, using the DV Start/Stop Detection command to create markers at the boundaries of each shot, then turning each clip's marker's in the Browser into subclips choosing Modify>Make Subclips.
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These instructions are printed in my (C) 2003 FCP 4.0 Manual. Two and half years have gone by. Two subsequent major releases have been introduced. This function still doesn't work (after pulldown removal).

Wonder what happens with HDV?
 
Brian, have you done a search for this problem. What are other users doing about it. I have found FCP documentation to be in error before. Does Apple have any comments about it?
 
FWIW I have a very easy (read lazy) way of capturing my media. It works for me because I like to see everything on my hard drive - there is always something to be stolen from a dud take or even the pre/post take roll.

1. Rewind tape to start.
2. Press play.
3. Click Capture Now
4. Go and have a cup of tea.
5. Come back and chop everything up in the timeline in a mass "Control+V" frenzy.
6. Edit what is left together, every-so-often stealing a shot from discarded material which is waiting on the hard drive.

Obviously if I was working with uncompressed HD, I would need to be more selective, but for DV I have found this to be very fast and more importantly, very thorough.

Is anyone else this lazy, I mean thorough? :)
 
kai said:
I have to second Matt's sentiment, on any professional project you're going to have many clips and takes, etc that you'll want to log in by hand, not rely on a home movie-esque feature (ala imovie) to guess for you.

I will say though that it's tricky, and unless you have experience at how FCP likes to work, the logging process isn't exactly user friendly.
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Absolutely you'll have many, many clips.

But what Brian and John describe can allow for this (which I do in Vegas all the time):

Be disciplined about stopping the camera and starting recording at each take with a slate.

Capture with scene detection.

Then, as long as you were judicious in the use of the slate and kept the discipline, after you capture a tape, you should have a folder full of thumbails, each of which being the slate for each take. (Of course, if you weren't judicious, you'll have doubled-up takes somewhere, but you should have a written shot log, too.)

It is then unnecessary to log the takes manually.

I find it to be an excpetional time-saver. It works so well, I can't even imagine why you'd call it "home movie-esque."
 
I guess I just like complete manual control over everything so my brain can sort it out. Just me I guess. It does save time, but I still like to know exactly where and what I have to work with, which doing everything by hand gives me.
 
The auto scene detect does sound like an interesting option. I've got a short project (about 30 min. of footage) that I'm working on - I'll try capturing using my method and using the auto detect and report back.

Here is my method:
1. Durring the shoot log all the takes with teh correcponding timecode.
2. Enter info into Excel spread sheet. (If there is a laptop on set then you can enter the info as you go.)
3. Export and import the Excel file into FCP.
4. Click batch capture, and go get a cup of coffee.

The Excel File that I use: (Developed by Larry Jordan)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/log_template.xls

Another Excel File: (I haven't found a use for this yet, but here it is)
http://www,waltersindustries.com/timecode_log.xls

Hope this helps, and I'll let you know how it goes with the two methods. (I've got one more scene to shoot before capturing.)
 
kai said:
I guess I just like complete manual control over everything so my brain can sort it out. Just me I guess. It does save time, but I still like to know exactly where and what I have to work with, which doing everything by hand gives me.
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That option is still there if you want it.
 
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