Who ultimately comes up with the shots?

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masschaos

New member
Quick question: Who comes up with the shots on a film?

By this I mean, say the director wanted a certain shot, like a high shot. Would the cinematographer have to create the shot?

Also: Before the film is ready to be filmed, do the DPs read the script and come up with the shots themselves, or does the director work with the cinematographers before filming starts?



Thank you! :D
 
Honestly, I would say it entirely depends on the production. Like with me, I write my own scripts and pen every detail of a scene down to depth of field, angle, lighting style, blocking, camera position and movement, ect ect, and if I hired a DP, they would have to read the script and do what they need to do the make the scene as I envision it, and I would probably want him to prepare for this beforehand so that he can gather or recommend any equipment possible. And on set is when the technical details come out, say if you run up on limitations. And creatively, if he wants anything changes or thinks of different or additional scenes, then I say that it's always healthy for a DP and screenwriter/director to have a meeting or session before hand to work out all the kinks.

In all reality, it depends on the team, but a DP truly is, for lack of a better description, the guy who comes in and makes a visual masterpiece out of a rich newbie's script. He's a bit like a music producer, he takes a songwriter's idea, wether detailed or messy, and makes a vision out of it; a product. While many DP's are extremely creative, it tends to be rare that DP's are writers themselves, and which means I would bet many DP's do not enjoy taking a vague screenwriter idea and making their own script out of it; DP's seem like people who's jobs are to take specific ideas and emotions and set up the visual aspects of the scene through the camera lens, working quickly off professional descriptions that the screenwriters or directors give the. Some of the better ones do recommend their ideas though, stretching all the way to the lighting, blocking, mood, color, editing style, ect ect - and more often than not, I would bet many of them pretty much make the entire film while a newbie director walks around and screams "cut!" and takes all the credit.

If I hired a DP, generally, I'd love him to be an extremely well rounded filmmaking expert with special expertise in camera work. He's the filmmaker, really. The troublesome thing is finding a DP who's style you like, but if he's a good DP, he should be able to generally replicate a style that you ask for.
 
In my film making process, the Director draws the storyboards from which the shots are taken. Boards include blocking, lighting, aperture setting, motion. I DP for myself most of the time now so no special communication is needed between the Director and the DP. I just recreate the shots from the storyboards on set. Rehearsals will inform your boarding too.
 
You'd normally have a number of pre-production meetings where all Departments involved in the movie will sit and discuss, essentially chaired by a combination of Director, Producer and Production Manager. These meetings will (depending on the scale of the production) help to structure the various choices that need to be made.

With larger budget projects, you'll find the Director (as an integral part of their prep/pre-production process) has had storyboards, blocking plans & maybe even complex pre-viz made. This often means shots are locked (although are often 'un-locked' during shooting, as circumstances change). A DP would be involved at an early stage, but would not work on storyboards - he/she may comment or add thoughts but the Director's choices, blocking, previz & 'boards give the DP an idea of the size of crew he needs (and what gear will need to be hired).

Of course, it depends on the budget & scale of production. If a shoot isn't well prepared for, you can turn up with more kit than required (hence wasted cash) or too little (which is often a nightmare) and spend a lot of time looking for the 'perfect shot'... and, even with a lot of correct prep, this can often happen when a shot becomes a fixation.

Regarding your first question - the high shot - if this was storyboarded, the DP would look at it (and the other shots in the scene and then refer to the schedule) & see what other shots are on the same shooting day, as it's often scheduled to try and get 'all the crane' shots on a single day - so you only hire for a day - this steps into scheduling & production management (but they are all linked).

Then, he'd offer suggestions on how to achieve the shot... if there are no 'boards, he/she needs to know if the shot is locked off or moving & 'how high is high?' (as this dicatates differing approaches)... tall sticks & a camera tilt or camera crane or a jib on wheels/track or a cherry picker or a remote head on a crane (etc). It's the DP's job to deliver the shot and find alternatives that work within budget.

The DP will use his experience to guide the Director and help to shoot what is planned. On a movie, as they say, time is money, so it's all about optimum pre-planning and executing high quality/speedy delivery.
 
I get the feeling that the cinematographer role is a bit like my own role as a commercial still photographer.

The client (the producer?? ) comes along, wants a story to be told (buy these bananas), and the AD (the director) sets himself down and imagines up the general idea and turn them into a layout (storyboard). Then he turns to me... often only with a piece of paper with the idea written on, maybe some lines about how they imagine the mood and the background setting, sometimes if I'm lucky they bring along a reference shot.
From that point on the job falls on my shoulders (the cinematographer) and from those directions I have to create the finished image the way I translated their briefing.

In most cases I get to design the light myself, choose the background and control if this banana goes in front, or in the back, and where the banana leaves or sack linen goes.
When I think the shot is in, I think "cut" so to speak, and hand it in so the AD can see if that is what they wanted.

I bet the movie making world is a bit like the still photo world... some directors are clueless until they see it with their own eyes on the screen. They depend on me totally to get the right shot, and that can sometimes turn out to be quite a work of guessing. Then there's those who already have the idea visualized in their head and can phrase themselves in such a way that I from the very first few setences already know if I need 2 or 3 lights and if I'm doing a close up or a total. I enjoy those kind of (art)directors. It's not that I can't imagine things for myself, but sometimes it's the combination of two things that turn out to make that one great shot.
 
It changes for everybody but the roles are generally as thus:

Director envisions and "sees" a scene in his head, draws it in storyboard (or otherwise describes it in words).

DP takes practical knowledge and creates the director's scene in real life.

However, you can have any number of things happen like:

Director has everything figured out and wants exactly what he sees with no changes at all (these director types might not even hire a DP). DP essentially does nothing but arrange everything for director.

or

Director wants something like what he saw in his head but is willing to make concessions. DP and director work together to achieve the scene, which could be the same or better than the director envisioned but otherwise, teamwork is key.

or

Director is OK with whatever the DP does to make the scene reality, gives DP full control. DP works without director supervision to create the scene.


It all really depends on who and what is involved.
 
I'm a lot lazier than you guys.

I generally rock up on the day and have a sort of picture in my head.
We have already chatted through the script in pre-prod so the DP also has a general idea of how we need to tell the story.

Then the DP generally sets up the shot and we do a test or two before deciding on what works.
(I might ask for a bit more lighting or set design to improve what is in frame from time to time).

Lazy, but it works for me.

:)
 
masschaos said:
Also: Before the film is ready to be filmed, do the DPs read the script and come up with the shots themselves, or does the director work with the cinematographers before filming starts?
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The DP will read the script and formulate his own opinions about each scene, making notes as he goes.

He'll then talk to the director about how he sees executing the shot, and the director will talk about look, mood, movement, etc. The DP is also responsible for determining how the shot will be accomplished to a greater extent than the director.

It a collaboration, but it is the director's film, so, if you're looking for an "ultimate" to label, it is the director.
 
I draw storyboards based on my director's vision. If the chance presents itself for a location scout, shots get locked, maps are drawn. No matter what, most shots change slightly on set. On-the-Bam shots are almosts always improvised somewhat. Director rules the show, but always keep your eyes open for good shots. Most of the time I'm asked to take control of the visual situation.
 
Wilbur Eddings said:
I'm a lot lazier than you guys.

I generally rock up on the day and have a sort of picture in my head.
We have already chatted through the script in pre-prod so the DP also has a general idea of how we need to tell the story.

Then the DP generally sets up the shot and we do a test or two before deciding on what works.
(I might ask for a bit more lighting or set design to improve what is in frame from time to time).

Lazy, but it works for me.

:)
Click to expand...

This isn't "Lazy" at all and in fact is a lot more common than people think. All of the projects I DP'ed on last year for both feature and television, worked exactly like this. Except we didn't need to test anything as I was just expected to produce the "magic".
 
craigbowman said:
This isn't "Lazy" at all and in fact is a lot more common than people think. All of the projects I DP'ed on last year for both feature and television, worked exactly like this. Except we didn't need to test anything as I was just expected to produce the "magic".
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Yeah baby! You produce the magic so that i can chill in my Directors char and play PSP then take all the glory later!
Now THAT's awesome film making!
 
I hate it when a director expects me to do the work for them. It is THEIR film. They should be drawing up the shots as they see them cut-by-cut in their minds. Then we talk about how to accomplish it, what look he or she is going for, what he or she wants to communicate in the shot, and then we get down to the technical, ultimately discussing what is feasible and what is not feasible within the limitations of the budget and crew. If the project is a lot bigger, a lot of the technical talk I do with the gaffer and AD, but I still spend hours talking to the director about the target visual language of the film.

A director that just "expects magic" would infuriate me to no end. It's a collaborative effort.
 
jscottprice said:
I hate it when a director expects me to do the work for them. It is THEIR film. They should be drawing up the shots as they see them cut-by-cut in their minds. Then we talk about how to accomplish it, what look he or she is going for, what he or she wants to communicate in the shot, and then we get down to the technical, ultimately discussing what is feasible and what is not feasible within the limitations of the budget and crew. If the project is a lot bigger, a lot of the technical talk I do with the gaffer and AD, but I still spend hours talking to the director about the target visual language of the film.

A director that just "expects magic" would infuriate me to no end. It's a collaborative effort.
Click to expand...

But.. But... What about my PSP high score?


Seriously... A director that does not communicate his/her vision to you aint directing...
 
I personally hate it when directors take all the credit - cinematograpghy and directing (that is, if then director is also the writer) are equal roles. If the director doesn't write or DP, then to be honest, the vision is usually more deserving to the DP's and writer's credit. For instance, filmmakers like Tyler Perry write, direct, and produce everything they do (but do not DP) and that is the example where a director for once deserves more credit.

Like with me, I write the script, draw the storyboards, compose the soundtrack, produce the film's budget, hire the team, and design all aspects of the shots. As it is, I'm dedicated to learning to be fluent in cinematography in execution ( as I'm already fluent in the technicals ) because being your own DP, to me, would feel very rewarding.
 
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Snapper123 said:
I personally hate it when directors take all the credit ...
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That happens a lot more in television. ie. One of those projects I mentioned earlier in this thread where I had to make the "magic", just won the "Best Drama" award on Monday at the Banff World Media Festival. There weren't specific categories for Cinematography like the Oscars or anything, and Yes the Director gets to walk up and accept the award, but that just goes with the territory. (It was a television pilot called La Fontaine)
 
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