Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
who generally owns the storyboards (copyright) when a storyboard artist is hired to make storyboards for a film project?
who owns the storyboards ?
- Thread starter Randall_Oelerich
- Start date
craigbowman
Veteran
If you have a contract and money changed hands in the amount of the contract rate, you do. They have a right to use copies for marketing purposes.
Its considered work for hire. If they do them for free, they do. A contract is only valid if money is involved and the amount agreed to is paid. That's why when you option a script you always pay something, even one buck no matter how thrilled they are to work with you.
Unless of course the contract states something different like they claim all rights, then its what's in the contract that takes precident.
Its considered work for hire. If they do them for free, they do. A contract is only valid if money is involved and the amount agreed to is paid. That's why when you option a script you always pay something, even one buck no matter how thrilled they are to work with you.
Unless of course the contract states something different like they claim all rights, then its what's in the contract that takes precident.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
I second everything Craig said. Of course, the only thing the artist would be able to use a story board for would be his portfolio, and he should have every right to use them. If you are worried about somebody else stealing your film via the boards, put a lock on them until production is done.
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Well I found a storyboard artist on the web, contacted him about doing storyboards and we discussed $10 per storyboard; then today he sends me a contract that states I will also pay for all his art supplies for the making of the storyboards (red flag goes up in my head), and the contract also says that he will own all the copyrights to the storyboards (another red flag), etc. I guess I do not like that, I might just pass. First it seem ridiculous that on top of an agreed upon price per storyboard I would have to pay for a nebulous blank check for his art supplies. Second I would want to own the storyboards, to use them as I see fit, for archival purposes, special featurettes, etc. I might just pass on the storyboard artist, just forget about storyboarding for short films, or just do my own storyboards.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
When you hire a make up person, pyro crew, whatever, you normally pay their rate plus expendables. But I agree, you had already set a price, and you should own the boards, not just rent them. I would come back at him with $15 per board to include supplies (Which can get pricey), and allow him to keep a copy of his work AFTER production is done. Take it or leave it. Have you even seen examples of his work?
You definitely should think about doing your own boards. Especially at the lo/no budget indie level.
Try Frame Forge. It's great, simple software that'll accomplish what any freehand artist can do. The boards don't need to be works of art. They just need to convey the shots the director has in mind.
You'll save time doing them yourself or with your DP.
Try Frame Forge. It's great, simple software that'll accomplish what any freehand artist can do. The boards don't need to be works of art. They just need to convey the shots the director has in mind.
You'll save time doing them yourself or with your DP.
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Yeah I am going to do them myself, decision made; unless I can also find s.b. artist(s) willing to do some for free for credits. I have ToonBoom Storyboard software, and have done lots of figure drawing, portraits, etc.; ordered some comic book artist photo reference books that will help. For low budget I think doing it myself is better.
Jeff Koenig
OMFGeek Member
Randall,
The provisions the artist asked for are pretty standard for commissioned work, to a point, in situations like yours.
The price of materials, however, should most likely have been built into the price per board. $10 a board, in this case, should cover not only the time to make the boards but also the materials used to make them. Typically, 50% would be do up front with the balance due on delivery. That's how I would have done it.
Barring that, cost of materials (and incidentals like shipping or cell phone usage) as a separate line item isn't unheard of, but if you're going to do it that way a specific budget or monetary limit should be written into the contract, with reimbursement dependent on his sending you receipts for everything he wants reimbursed.
As far as ownership, it's absolutely normal for him to keep his copyright. In most cases, you'd be licensing the use of the image(s) for a specific set of purposes (also should be in the contract), including the production, distribution, and marketing of your short. By retaining ownership of the copyright, he's protecting himself from the possibility of you profiting from his work outside the agreed upon uses, such as selling prints. It also allows him to sell prints of his own or exibit his work in public or sell the original images in the future. It also protects him if for some reason (not saying you would, though) you attempted to pass the images off as your own work.
I don't know many professional artists that would sell their work outright for $10. Any drawing or painting I do is worth significantly more than that. Comparatively, no band would sell you one of their songs outright in that price range, so why would you expect an artist to? You're paying for a license to use a work, and the fairly standard things you plan on using the work for (promotion, dvd extras, etc) should be covered by that license and specified in the contract.
You, however, would retain copyright on the script and he'd have to credit you for the story elements of the boards (scene descriptions, dialogue, etc.)
It's about protecting your work. YouTube has a fairly expansive liscensing agreement that assigns them a liberal amount of usage rights, but you at least still retain ownership of your videos. Would you ever upload a video to that site if you didn't?
Sounds like the guy you contacted knows what he's doing, and that's not a bad thing. If I sent you a contract, it would say pretty much the same things (although like I said I'd include cost of materials in the per-board price and I'd do a better job than he seems to have done outlining the usage rights of your license to the images).
I'm not saying you need to use this guy, or me, or anyone else for that matter. You should, however, be realistic in what your budget is going to get you for professional quality work. The price he quoted you is pretty much the same as what I did. That was a dxvuser "friend" price. The standard rates for my boards when I was doing them was between $50-$100 each, depending on the size of the project, amount of boards, and the project's budget. The guy who trained me, Iain McCaig, charges significantly more than that. Even at those prices, I'd expect to retain the copyright. I board on 8.5x11" heavy index card stock, with an image area of 8 inches by 4.5 inches for 16:9. Were I to outright sell a similarly sized piece of art, the price range would easily be closer to $300 to $750.
-Jeff
The provisions the artist asked for are pretty standard for commissioned work, to a point, in situations like yours.
The price of materials, however, should most likely have been built into the price per board. $10 a board, in this case, should cover not only the time to make the boards but also the materials used to make them. Typically, 50% would be do up front with the balance due on delivery. That's how I would have done it.
Barring that, cost of materials (and incidentals like shipping or cell phone usage) as a separate line item isn't unheard of, but if you're going to do it that way a specific budget or monetary limit should be written into the contract, with reimbursement dependent on his sending you receipts for everything he wants reimbursed.
As far as ownership, it's absolutely normal for him to keep his copyright. In most cases, you'd be licensing the use of the image(s) for a specific set of purposes (also should be in the contract), including the production, distribution, and marketing of your short. By retaining ownership of the copyright, he's protecting himself from the possibility of you profiting from his work outside the agreed upon uses, such as selling prints. It also allows him to sell prints of his own or exibit his work in public or sell the original images in the future. It also protects him if for some reason (not saying you would, though) you attempted to pass the images off as your own work.
I don't know many professional artists that would sell their work outright for $10. Any drawing or painting I do is worth significantly more than that. Comparatively, no band would sell you one of their songs outright in that price range, so why would you expect an artist to? You're paying for a license to use a work, and the fairly standard things you plan on using the work for (promotion, dvd extras, etc) should be covered by that license and specified in the contract.
You, however, would retain copyright on the script and he'd have to credit you for the story elements of the boards (scene descriptions, dialogue, etc.)
It's about protecting your work. YouTube has a fairly expansive liscensing agreement that assigns them a liberal amount of usage rights, but you at least still retain ownership of your videos. Would you ever upload a video to that site if you didn't?
Sounds like the guy you contacted knows what he's doing, and that's not a bad thing. If I sent you a contract, it would say pretty much the same things (although like I said I'd include cost of materials in the per-board price and I'd do a better job than he seems to have done outlining the usage rights of your license to the images).
I'm not saying you need to use this guy, or me, or anyone else for that matter. You should, however, be realistic in what your budget is going to get you for professional quality work. The price he quoted you is pretty much the same as what I did. That was a dxvuser "friend" price. The standard rates for my boards when I was doing them was between $50-$100 each, depending on the size of the project, amount of boards, and the project's budget. The guy who trained me, Iain McCaig, charges significantly more than that. Even at those prices, I'd expect to retain the copyright. I board on 8.5x11" heavy index card stock, with an image area of 8 inches by 4.5 inches for 16:9. Were I to outright sell a similarly sized piece of art, the price range would easily be closer to $300 to $750.
-Jeff
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Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
I get your point. But it's just too much legalese for me, I will just do my own storyboards, and who knows better what shots are needed than the director anyhow. There seems to be disagreement even here on dvxuser on who would own the copyright; it is a work for hire after all. Music scores be be bought outright, or the copyright still retained by the composer. I think what bothered me more in the contract were the clauses about paying for all supplies (unspecified, blank check, that makes me extremely nervous and very suspicious of getting ripped off) and paying for legal costs if payment for each storyboard is not received within 30 days, etc etc. I mean I am just talking about 10-15 sketches, I am not looking to get into a legal quagmire. I and artist myself of many years and have figure drawing skills of my own (sparlo.net) so I will just have to learn to cross-over to trying my hand at storyboard sketches. It might be fun and who knows, there might even be a graphic novel in my future from one of my scripts. =)
Jeff Koenig
OMFGeek Member
Craig and I aren't contradicting, though it may seem that way at first. In absence of a contract, the buyer would own the artwork, which is exactly why mine and other contracts specify that the artist retains the copyright, with usage rights licensed to the client.
-Jeff
-Jeff
Jason Miller
Veteran
randall go to your local art school, every city has them find someone with talent offer to bay the a little for the project, and tell them they are free to use it for there portfolio,
astigmatic
Well-known member
the ownership is something negotiated in the contract. Paying for supplies is stupid and sounds like nickle diming. Everything is done digital these days so there should be no cost.