Which Timecode gear to invest into?

I

IronFilm

Veteran
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been pondering which of the many time code options to invest in (as the choices have exploded lately due to NAB 2017!), and it seems like the "best" bang for buck option would be the Timecode Systems' UltraSync ONE bundle for US$915? (1 x :wave + 2 x UltraSync ONE)

As that price/features ratio seems unbeatable! (although I wish I had a rough idea of what the Tentacle Sync E will be selling for)

Unless someone can make a compelling argument for Ambient NanoLockit / Tentacle Sync E / Betso TCX-2 / Denecke SB-4 / TIG Qbit / etc instead? I'd love to hear why!
 
My first question would be do you actually need time code?

Some people absolutely do, some don't really but do practically because they work with clients that think they do. But many don't actually need TC these days.

In the first group are most big $ projects and multi cam gigs, the second are a lot of production shooters, the last is pretty much all micro budget filmmakers and just about anyone shooting on DSLR.

Just a thought. If you need some analog TC gear I have a large box of readers, burn inserters, VITC readers/ converters that have been collecting dust for a decade or so.
 
I have a set of the Tentacle Sync's that I bought at the end of last year and I recommended them in another thread, pre-April/NAB, because they work, are tiny and light-weight and the internal battery will run forever(40 hours, I believe), but now there are several very affordable options in the mix. I actually like the look of the Mozgear qbit box, because you can set the frame rate easily and it appears to be very tiny, just like the Tentacle. The only thing I really do not like about the Tentacle is having to set the frame rate with the app. They have said that frame rate auto-detect was going to be added in future firmware, but as of yet, it hasn't. Maybe the new boxes will have it.
 
Noiz2 said:
My first question would be do you actually need time code?

Some people absolutely do, some don't really but do practically because they work with clients that think they do. But many don't actually need TC these days.
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For sure. Though just in the past week I've worked on (doing sound) three separate projects all using time code, so about time I get my own gear.
 
Run&Gun said:
I have a set of the Tentacle Sync's that I bought at the end of last year and I recommended them in another thread, pre-April/NAB, because they work, are tiny and light-weight and the internal battery will run forever(40 hours, I believe), but now there are several very affordable options in the mix. I actually like the look of the Mozgear qbit box, because you can set the frame rate easily and it appears to be very tiny, just like the Tentacle. The only thing I really do not like about the Tentacle is having to set the frame rate with the app. They have said that frame rate auto-detect was going to be added in future firmware, but as of yet, it hasn't. Maybe the new boxes will have it.
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Mozegear QBit has terrible battery life though, must be externally powered

Not sure about iOS.... but with Android I can set the frame rate for Tentacle Syncs with the app and it only takes mere seconds, not so difficult? As you only do it once per project.
 
What are your clients shooting with? Most budget cams won't hold sync for long anyway, so multiple lock boxes are needed... then the cam has to have the ability to read ext TC. And if the takes longer than ten minutes or so, (events, concerts, ect) a genlock system is needed. TC by itself isn't much good for long form shoots. OTOH, clap slates were adequate since way back when as well. Will your clients pay for the added gear cost, unless you're subsidizing the projects.
 
IronFilm said:
For sure. Though just in the past week I've worked on (doing sound) three separate projects all using time code, so about time I get my own gear.
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Well that at least puts you in the second group. I actually had a gig last summer that was the first time (in production) that it would have looked good to have TC. In post we use TC, at least for reference, all the time and in the "good old days" we used it all the time to lock the DAW to video tape. Once everything went file based the "need" for most projects went away.
 
IronFilm said:
Mozegear QBit has terrible battery life though, must be externally powered

Not sure about iOS.... but with Android I can set the frame rate for Tentacle Syncs with the app and it only takes mere seconds, not so difficult? As you only do it once per project.
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The iOS app works great, as well. Just one of those things that would make it just THAT much easier to not have to check/set the frame rate. Just take a "tap" from whatever your master source is and they are all good to go(presuming your not setting TC from the app/phone clock).

I did see that the qbit internal batt seems to be more or less just for back-up purposes, not full time running.

I wasn't trying to diss the Tentacles. I like them and actually have been contemplating getting a second set. But will probably wait and see what the new version has to offer, if anything. One of my audio guys has a set and another shooter does, too, so I can easily get more if I need them.
 
Funny, I'm getting more calls for TC than a couple years ago. But most of those newer calls aren't for TC and sync (ie- TC+sync shoots are holding steady, but not growing). Sure, most cameras besides Arris don't have great internal clocks, but for most takes in many situations, a TC tag works well enough. LOOONG interviews and concerts are exceptions... But if it's a big deal, on interviews, sometimes camera will stop and start a new file every 15 min or so and that kinda solves the problem. Well, that, perhaps some waveform matching (eg- plural eyes), and an assistant editor. :-)

So I'd say that until you know exactly what sorts of gigs and cameras you'll be working with, I'd go for some inexpensive but reliable TC box. And there sure are a lot of them now. This list looks pretty up to date:
https://www.trewaudio.com/product-category/slates-timecode/slates-timecode-syncgen-boxes/

And when you're budgeting, don't forget to allow for US$30-$80 or so for all the different cables for all the different cameras. Here's a decent list of the various TC in connectors on some common cameras:
https://soundrolling.com/blog/timecode/list-of-timecode-audio-ins-for-popular-cameras

The Timecode Systems UltraSync ONE is a pretty cool box (US$300 for a TC+sync box with a tiny display):
http://www.timecodesystems.com/products-home/ultrasync-one/

But note the little "mini COAX" connectors. There's been some debate about those things (I think you've seen it, IronFilm, elsewhere). Will they hold up in the field? Considering the company, I"d say they've probably factored that in. And it looks like the company includes a couple mini-COAX to BNC cables to connect to at least some cameras. But do they (or resellers) yet have cables to connect to say DSLRs, RED, and all the others? I'd guess eventually, yes. But it's worth finding out when those cables will be available.

The Mozegear Q-Bit is kinda neat. And really really small. Doesn't the internal battery run for like 4 hours? I think the idea is you'd use that really really small TC box on bigger cameras that will be able to give it power and the battery is mainly for changeover, camera restarts, etc... Now, that won't work with every camera, but considering how many camops complain about any TC device attached to the camers, it's pretty cool of Mozegear to carve out a unique little niche. But the Q-Bit is probably not an all-things-to-all-cameras solution...more of something to get after we already have a few other TC devices.

I like a lot about the little Denecke SB-4; little display panel, runs off of two AAA batteries for like 30 hours (?) or forever off external power, from a great company with a long history in TC and with great support. But it's a bit over US$400. Until last month, that wasn't so expensive.

As you may have seen, the original Tentacle Sync box now costs US$200 (and $370 for two). I don't know if that's a permanent price drop, or if it just lasts for a while or until current stock runs out and they bring out their newer box. I'm not a huge fan of the non-locking 3.5mm connectors, just about no interface, and built-in batteries. But people aren't having much trouble with them...they're small, light, seemingly reliable, have some neat desktop and smartphone software features, and they are cheap.

Yes, I've clearly been following all these developments as I decide what else to add to my kit. Also note: I'm finding it increasingly hard to get clients to pay fair rental for TC products. I mean, the smart and experienced clients will...but that's not all of my client base. So I'm a bit price sensitive about adding new stuff.

Why not get one or two Tentacle Sync boxes for now? They'll work for at least a bunch of your TC-demanding gigs, I'd guess. And if you decide they're not the perfect product for all your gigs, your experience with them will let you know what else you need...and you'll have had time for other people to see if the UltraSync boxes and system are working out well.

At least, that's my take. Hope this helps at least a little. Sorry the post is so long.

IronFilm, let us know what you end up doing and how your new TC stuff works out for you...
 
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I don't understand why timecode features and clocks are so bad on so many of the Cine cams. My VariCam(P2)can sit for weeks and weeks and if TC was set to free run time of day to my phone so that I can check it against my phone(atomic clock app), it has hardly drifted. Maybe a few seconds, and that's with no external battery on the cam. But a C300 can drift several seconds after just being flipped over to playback or turned off for just a few minutes. And why do all the Cine cameras only have a TC IN or OUT connection instead of two separate TC IN and TC OUT connections like we always had on our ENG cameras?

Heck, if the Tentacles are down to $370 for a set, now, I may go ahead and grab another pair. That's chump-change for two TC boxes.
 
Ohh... thank you Jim for the tip about the original Tentacle Sync price drop!! Hmmmm... that does make my decision tougher :-/

Run&Gun, did sound the last couple of days on a shoot with a C300 mk2. Had rather bad TC drift
 
IronFilm said:
Ohh... thank you Jim for the tip about the original Tentacle Sync price drop!! Hmmmm... that does make my decision tougher :-/

Run&Gun, did sound the last couple of days on a shoot with a C300 mk2. Had rather bad TC drift
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It's funny you mention that. I was on a shoot last week with a mkII. My buddy got called to shoot for an out of town client who was bringing theirs. They still needed all the support, lighting and audio, so my friend calls me and I just bring all my stuff and I ran audio for him(nice change of pace not being responsible for a whole shoot. Lol). We only shot a few quick interviews and the rest was b-roll, but every time we shut the camera down to change interview locations(maybe 10 mins?), the 300 had drifted several seconds from the mixer(SD 633).
 
Noiz2 said:
Does any DSLR accept TC? None that I have seen.
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If you are shooting with a dslr, one of the cool things about the Tentacles is that they have mics built into the boxes, so you can have the TC track and still have a scratch track(of sorts).
 
Can anyone find the Tentacle Sync Timecode Generator Standard Set (i.e. two of them) for $370? As I suddenly now can't find it anywhere for that price... but I could yesterday.

Noiz2 said:
Does any DSLR accept TC? None that I have seen.
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Only the Panasonic GH4 with YAGH
 
Run&Gun said:
If you are shooting with a dslr, one of the cool things about the Tentacles is that they have mics built into the boxes, so you can have the TC track and still have a scratch track(of sorts).
Click to expand...

Another interesting approach that I think is a bit better (albeit more expensive): The Mozegear TIG Q28 lets you connect audio from say a small receiver into the TIG and then it outputs audio and TC so you can bring both to your DSLR. A bit of bleed, but fine for scratch track with a waveform that matches the audio recorder master...

Moze, Tentacle, and a bunch of companies are coming up with useful little devices these days!
 
IronFilm said:
Can anyone find the Tentacle Sync Timecode Generator Standard Set (i.e. two of them) for $370? As I suddenly now can't find it anywhere for that price... but I could yesterday.
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Looks like Trew Audio still lists them for that price (see link earlier in this discussion). Did you try them? Are they sold out?
Or perhaps a DVXUSER regular dealer can match that price?
 
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IronFilm said:
Can anyone find the Tentacle Sync Timecode Generator Standard Set (i.e. two of them) for $370? As I suddenly now can't find it anywhere for that price... but I could yesterday.


Only the Panasonic GH4 with YAGH
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Interesting, though apparently the YAGH is now orphaned since it is "unavailable" on the Panasonic web site. Probably because it was $$$ and required a big hunkin external battery.

BUT it has the standard BNC TC connectors so if you have one then you should be able to hook up just about any TC box.
 
Jim Feeley said:
Another interesting approach that I think is a bit better (albeit more expensive): The Mozegear TIG Q28 lets you connect audio from say a small receiver into the TIG and then it outputs audio and TC so you can bring both to your DSLR. A bit of bleed, but fine for scratch track with a waveform that matches the audio recorder master...

Moze, Tentacle, and a bunch of companies are coming up with useful little devices these days!
Click to expand...

Yeah this would be most handy with situations such as a DSLR, that doesn't have dedicated timecode. But for this, I think the Tentacle Sync (with its built in microphone) would do the job for cheaper and in a smaller package.
 
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