Which recorder?

P

Paul Walker

Active member
So... my trusty Fostex FR2-le has died (an eBay purchase from a few years back). Nothing to do with the massive amount of punishment it went through but am looking for an alternative. Need 2 channels max, field recording (documentaries and narrative) and as good a set of pres as I can get for the price. Also, want some serious battery life, the same as my formerly trusty FR2-le.

Am thinking of an HD-P2 or possibly a DR-680. I understand these have better pres in the price range than the other options including the Roland R44, Fostex FR2-le.

In addition, want to boost the pres a little with an MM-1 (used) or maybe even an MP-1 (used). I know you will all want to talk me into a 302 but price...

So what do you think? What would you go for in this price range?

And also, what bag?
 
"What would you go for in this price range?"
- What price range? New, used?
A (used) SD 552 has great preamps and can mix and/or record to two tracks. Battery life? Plan on an external batt. system. The newer series Tascams, DR60/70/701 have 'decent' preamps (for budget gear anyway). I'm not familiar with the battery economy on them. The 680 and HD-P2 eats through AA batteries eight at a time.
 
The internal battery life on the DR60D and DR60Dmk2 is understated when called poor, about an hour on fresh alkalines is the somewhat safe bet. Odd since the DR40 lasts for around 6 to 7 hours on a set of Nimh batteries.
 
I was toying with the idea of spending £1,000. Then maybe I could buy an SD 302 and hook it up to a spare Tascam DR-100 I have kicking around. I need great pres but only 2 channels.

What do you all think?
 
You can pair a cheap Anker battery with a Tascam 701D and run all day. I usually keep a pair of lithiums in it too in case somethings gets disconnected. It's not as good as a Mix Pre in my opinion but it's a lower profile and easier to configure form factor for me, I can just pull it out and go. I use it with the little Ktec case that B&H bundles with it, which I can jam in the top of the Ktec case. It's not for everyone and it's not pro but great features for the price and can use it with a dedicated sound person and the case as a super mini sound bag or pull it out of the case and mount directly with the camera depending what I'm doing.
 
I also used to have a Roland R26 which is a great recorder. But I sold it because it wasn't bag friendly and it had no outputs other than a headphone jack. Oddly, it was also the only recorder I've owned that had non-locking XLR which was, truthfully, never an issue. I stopped worrying about it after a while. I have a Tascam 680 mkii now and it's a nice recorder with somewhat better battery life than the previous model. Maybe an hour longer battery life than the mki. I've rigged an external battery that I've only had to rely on a few times.
 
Since you are only using two channels max a MixPre first generation is going to be a great option used and a lot cheaper than a 302.
 
I'd second Scott's suggestion of a Mixpre (or, better, Mixpre-D), and the earlier one of a DR70D, and put the two together in a Petrol PS607. Here's a photo I've posted before of this set up - with an Anker battery tucked away below the recorder (also already suggested for the Tascam) and headphones (Sennheiser HD 25) in the front pocket.

Mixpre and DR70D.jpg

Or, as has been suggested earlier, go for the Zoom F8 w/o a preamp/mixer. UK prices (high for SD at the moment, although used is possible) mean this will be a little cheaper. But, for no more than 2 channels, I think - for your described use - you would miss the much better gain knobs, LED meters and, arguably, the SD limiters of the Mixpre-D.

Cheers,

Roland
 
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Greg_E said:
The internal battery life on the DR60D and DR60Dmk2 is understated when called poor, about an hour on fresh alkalines is the somewhat safe bet. Odd since the DR40 lasts for around 6 to 7 hours on a set of Nimh batteries.
Click to expand...

No issue at all if you hook it up with an external battery pack like I do. A simple and great set up.
http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-upda...ons-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/

I'd suggest a Tascam DR60D mk2 (only US$150 now for it new!! :-o ) or Tascam DR70D, then spend that extra spare cash on a used Sound Devices 302 / MixPre D / MixPre.

Or... just get the Zoom F8!
 
Throwback said:
I'd second Scott's suggestion of a Mixpre (or, better, Mixpre-D), and the earlier one of a DR70D, and put the two together in a Petrol PS607. Here's a photo I've posted before of this set up - with an Anker battery tucked away below the recorder (also already suggested for the Tascam) and headphones (Sennheiser HD 25) in the front pocket.

View attachment 113614

Or, as has been suggested earlier, go for the Zoom F8 w/o a preamp/mixer. UK prices (high for SD at the moment, although used is possible) mean this will be a little cheaper. But, for no more than 2 channels, I think - for your described use - you would miss the much better gain knobs, LED meters and, arguably, the SD limiters of the Mixpre-D.

Cheers,

Roland
Click to expand...

So I could go for a Mix Pre-D, or at a pinch, an MM-1. Then a DR70 or 701 and a Petrol Bag. Sold! This is exactly what I am looking for if I can find a battery life solution.

There is one element which is power. With phantom from a Mix Pre-D, the battery life will be terrible. Is there a way of powering a Sound Devices mixer from an external source? Something similar to powering the DR701 from an external battery?
 
My two channel kit is a mix pre d and a Marantz 661. The 661 can take the AES output from the mix pre d so the 661 just acts as a bit bucket and you don't have to worry about levels or two preamps. The marantz can run off of 5v so you can run it on USB with the proper set-up. An external battery with a USB out and 14V or 12V can run both parts. I used to use a Tekkeon, but they are now out of business. I think that some A/B mount batteries have both USB and XLR out and that would work. I use a BDS, but those get expensive.
 
I have the DR-60D, DR-70D and Zoom F8 and if you look at the specs on the Tascam recorders you'll see that the only model that has a low headphone output is the DR-70D. Not sure why Tascam decided to lower the headphone output by 60% with the 70D. This matches my "real world" tests with my 60D and 70D and I had to add an external headphone amp when using the 70D since the output is simply too low to be usable. The Zoom F8 will blow your ears off.

Headphone Output spec comparison

DR-70D - 20mW + 20mW

DR-60D - 50mW + 50mW
DR-60DMKII - 50mW + 50mW
DR-701D - 50mW + 50mW
DR-680MKII - 50mW + 50mW

Zoom F8 - 100mW + 100mW
 
cpreston said:
My two channel kit is a mix pre d and a Marantz 661. The 661 can take the AES output from the mix pre d so the 661 just acts as a bit bucket and you don't have to worry about levels or two preamps.
Click to expand...
About a year ago I compared the digital output of the Mixpre-D to the line-out (into a DR-70D), to see if there is any difference for extremely quiet sounds using an extremely low self-noise mic, and there was almost no difference: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...n-test&p=1986508408&highlight=#post1986508408. That said, I'd be very happy if more modest digital recorders, especially with a bag-friendly form like the DR-70D, had digital inputs. Of course, with the 1khz test tone on the Mixpre-D, setting levels on any digital recorder is a breeze.

Cheers,

Roland
 
Paul Walker said:
So I could go for a Mix Pre-D, or at a pinch, an MM-1. Then a DR70 or 701 and a Petrol Bag. Sold! This is exactly what I am looking for if I can find a battery life solution.
Click to expand...
The battery question has been addressed already, and is no big deal: I'd just urge you to go for the Mixpre-D rather than the MM-1. I had the MM-1, which was great as far as it went, and then fairly quickly part-exchanged it for the Mixpre-D, which - for most uses - is so much better (the MM-1 excels for a boom op providing a signal to a separate sound mixer, but, obviously, that isn't what you were doing with your FR2-le): 2 channels, level meters, 1khz test tone for setting level with recorder and form factor are just a few of the reasons to go for the Mixpre-d straight off. If the combination of Mixpre-D/DR-70D/Petrol bag is not affordable with the current high SD prices in the UK, I'd think more about the Zoom F8.

Cheers,

Roland
 
Throwback said:
The battery question has been addressed already, and is no big deal: I'd just urge you to go for the Mixpre-D rather than the MM-1. I had the MM-1, which was great as far as it went, and then fairly quickly part-exchanged it for the Mixpre-D, which - for most uses - is so much better (the MM-1 excels for a boom op providing a signal to a separate sound mixer, but, obviously, that isn't what you were doing with your FR2-le): 2 channels, level meters, 1khz test tone for setting level with recorder and form factor are just a few of the reasons to go for the Mixpre-d straight off. If the combination of Mixpre-D/DR-70D/Petrol bag is not affordable with the current high SD prices in the UK, I'd think more about the Zoom F8.

Cheers,

Roland
Click to expand...

Sure, the Mixpre-D looks good. Bag, DR70D, Mixpre looks good. However, from a power perspective, my understanding is I cannot run power into the 302 from a USB (from reading the manual). So I'm just figuring this part out.

Maybe I'm paranoid about battery life but I'm about to spend 3 days in the middle of a swamp in a pretty remote area of Finland without access to power. Next question: Best mosquito repellant and softest toilet paper...
 
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Paul Walker said:
Bag, DR70D, Mixpre looks good. However, from a power perspective, my understanding is I cannot run power into the 302 from a USB (from reading the manual). So I'm just figuring this part out.

Maybe I'm paranoid about battery life but I'm about to spend 3 days in the middle of a swamp in a pretty remote area of Finland without access to power.
Click to expand...
As Cpreston said above, you can use a USB external battery that has both USB outputs and another DC output (usually these are variable - e.g. 9v, 12v and 16v). Here's a review of a fairly random example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AiGSO7M98Y. Perhaps a bit larger than you would want. For this, you would need to wire a hirose connector for the Mixpre-D end. Alternatively, you could have a more modest-sized USB battery for the DR70-D and a separate external battery for the Mixpre-D: as you will have seen from the manual, Sound Devices produce their own http://www.sounddevices.com/products/accessories/power-accessories/xl-nph that uses the very common Sony NP batteries, and which, therefore, I assume is a step-up adapter. Certainly this is the case with the cheaper and - more easily available in the UK - Hawk-Woods DV-SQNR. Both these come with hirose connectors already fitted. Alternatively, you could always consider an SD USBPre-2 instead of the Mixpre-D as it accepts (indeed, needs) USB power, but, for field use, I think you will find the Mixpre-d more flexible and robust: and its internal AA battery power is part of that robustness (perhaps especially relevant where - as you say will be the case - there is no power available to charge anything).

There are other solutions to power of, course, but hope this helps.

Cheers,

Roland
 
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