Which of these Light Packages would you recommend for *general* filmmaking?

S

Steve33825

Member
I'm a new filmmaker just starting out and I'm simply looking for a generalized filmmaking lighting kit that I can use for pretty much any type of film scene - Indoor, outdoor, dark scenes, bright scenes, green screen, etc. - If it helps to know, the camera I have is a Canon HV-20. I'm kind of caught up between the whole tungsten vs. fluorescent debate, I kind of wanna use Fluorescent because they last longer and arent as hot as tungsten but tungsten goes longer distances than fluorescent.

So, be it Tungsten or Fluorescent or both, which of these kits do you think I should get for "general" filmmaking? If there's something additional i need to purchase outside of any of these kits in order to make this work (i.e. one or two tungsten lights along with a fluorescent kit), please let me know.

Tungsten:
http://www.eoslightingllc.com/cm/filmmakers/tungsten/

Fluorescent:
http://www.eoslightingllc.com/cm/filmmakers/dayflo-pro/
 
If you can only have one buy the tungsten. You can soften it with the soft boxes and have it produce hard light when boxes removed.
 
Steve33825 said:
Good point, and what about the lights dying too soon? Is there any way around that?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by dying? There are 50 year old Mole lights still working just fine. I'm going to buy half a dozen or more so for Christmas.

Bulbs (aka globes) are cheap. Buy 2 spares for each light.
 
Absolutley, if you have only have to chose between those choices go with a tungsten kit. They will be way more versatile to use. Phudsontx is right, if you need soft light, you can put a tungsten light in a light box, and if you need a harder light, use the direct tungsten light. If you need a narrow beam you can snot them and if you need a light pattern, you can shine them through a Cookaloris. The flos just don't give you flexibilty. PerroneFord is has it right also, globes are cheap. I have never had any kind of issue with frequently having to replace tungsten globes. Just like noted, keep a couple spares for each light.
 
Build as diverse a lighting package as you can afford. Add a light here and there over time. Renting is the way to go with a big show with a decent budget, but between those projects you'll have a package to experiment with and really learn new techniques and shortcuts.
 
Guys, what I mean by the lights dying too soon is that, as I assume you all know, tungsten lights don't last as long as fluorescent ones.. so I hear, at least. That's what I meant by that. That aside, I called the sales dept. for that site I listed above and asked her about which package, she said to go with the 5500 watt fluorescent package, i asked her about the tungsten vs. fluorescent thing, she said flo's are better than tungsten and the only difference between them is the temperature, she said flo's are perfect for outdoor and daylight scenes. Your thoughts on her input?
 
Steve33825 said:
she said flo's are perfect for outdoor and daylight scenes. Your thoughts on her input?
Click to expand...

She has no idea what she's talking about. Fluorescent are NOT better than tungsten in general, she doesn't even make important distinctions like soft vs. hard source and light throw. Fluorescent are larger light sources so their output is very soft, unlike tungsten fresnel lights which are point sources and this gives you a harder light with more defined shadows. Because of this, a fresnel will have a longer throw, meaning that their light output doesn't diminish quickly over a longer distance. A fluorescent on the other hand has a shorter throw, so their brightness will drop off quickly over just a few feet.

So using a fluorescent outdoor, especially in daylight would just be a bad idea since they have to be placed virtually next to the subject to have any appreciable effect. On that note, even a small tungsten fixture won't do you much good, but that's because the sun is extremely powerful and we're talking a minimum of 5kw equivalent of light to make an appreciable difference.
 
Huy Vu said:
She has no idea what she's talking about. Fluorescent are NOT better than tungsten in general, she doesn't even make important distinctions like soft vs. hard source and light throw. Fluorescent are larger light sources so their output is very soft, unlike tungsten fresnel lights which are point sources and this gives you a harder light with more defined shadows. Because of this, a fresnel will have a longer throw, meaning that their light output doesn't diminish quickly over a longer distance. A fluorescent on the other hand has a shorter throw, so their brightness will drop off quickly over just a few feet.

So using a fluorescent outdoor, especially in daylight would just be a bad idea since they have to be placed virtually next to the subject to have any appreciable effect. On that note, even a small tungsten fixture won't do you much good, but that's because the sun is extremely powerful and we're talking a minimum of 5kw equivalent of light to make an appreciable difference.
Click to expand...

Ok I see what you're getting at, Huy. In that case, which one of these Tungsten packages would you recommend from this page: http://www.eoslightingllc.com/cm/filmmakers/tungsten/

I'm guessing the 5-point Standard Edition IndieMaker 4200? (the second one from the left)
 
Steve33825 said:
Guys, what I mean by the lights dying too soon is that, as I assume you all know, tungsten lights don't last as long as fluorescent ones..
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen a globe in a tungsten movie light? These are not the GE bulbs from your local supermarket. How long the bulbs last doesn't matter one bit if the light can do what you need it to do. I use both tungsten and fluorescent, but I generally use them for vastly different purposes. And I will sometimes use them when lighting the exact same scene.

Steve33825 said:
That aside, I called the sales dept. for that site I listed above and asked her about which package, she said to go with the 5500 watt fluorescent package, i asked her about the tungsten vs. fluorescent thing, she said flo's are better than tungsten and the only difference between them is the temperature, she said flo's are perfect for outdoor and daylight scenes. Your thoughts on her input?
Click to expand...

My thoughts on her input? You could have gotten a more educated response from a pet chimp. RUN away from this company. Seriously. Take a fluorescent light outside the door of your house. Turn it on. Hold it about 4ft from your house. Can you tell if it's lighting the house? My bet is no. Fluorescent lights will absolutely DISAPPEAR outdoors on a sunny day. You'd have to put 6-8 strong bulbs about 2-4ft from the subject to even know there was any light coming from the unit.

Spend some time educating yourself before you go spend money. Lowel offers a very nice site that helps beginners and people new to lighting.

http://www.lowel.com/edu/

Read the foundations, then go through the lessons. When you get done, you'll know about 1000x more about lighting than the clown you spoke to on the phone.

When you're done with that, peruse the following companies regarding lights:

1. Arri
2. Mole Richardson
3. Kino Flo
4. Cool Lights
5. Lowel
6. Altman
7. Lite Panels

There are other quality lights out there. But these are representative of lights you'd find on the set of a feature film or a decent indie shoot. Companies like Mole Richardson have been in business for 80 years making lights for Hollywood films. They are located in Hollywood. When all you do is lights, and stands and accessories for lights, and you are based in Hollywood, you had darn well better do a good job or you'll soon be OUT of business.
 
I'd say the flourescents are best for indoor close-up shots. It's soft and doesn't get hot near the actors. Everything else would be best for tungsten. With flourescents you can't get any texture. Tungstens you can cast shadows and make hard edges. Flourescents make getting that soft look easy. I myself only have flourescents and find it real hard to get a lot out of them. They are nice to have at times but I find myself really needing some hard light often. At least with tungstens I could have the choice of soft and hard. I could bounce light to soften it up if I needed but with flourescents I'm stuck.
 
On your budget if you are lighting outside during daylight hours use reflectors not instruments. They can be a little spendy but there are many DIY solutions available for those just starting out.
 
Huy and Perrone are giving good advice as usual. You got some craptastic advice from the sales person either because they don't know better or they have their own motive for selling one over the other. Either way...

What you want is versatility and you won't get that with just fluorescents. In fact, you probably won't get it with an "all in one package." I'm just beginning my lighting journey and it's obvious to me that you can easily spend more on lights than the camera so you must choose wisely. Consider renting unless you'll use them frequently enough to offset the cost.

I'd stay clear of third party, off-brand lights. You get what you pay for and you don't want substandard instruments capable of electrocuting someone or setting your set afire.

Have a look here for some thoughts about assembling your own kit. This one is for interviews but you'll get the basic premise:

http://www.bluesky-web.com/light-kit.htm
 
This is a reminder to the OP that tungsten lights used outdoors will usually need to be jelled to adjust for white balance. Jells are clipped over the front of your light and will reduce you light output. Keep this in mind when sizing your lights.

Grant
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top