where to learn?
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Me too, I am total new to this area and I am interested. Would appreciate if anyone can tell what I should do to get started? I am still a newbie so any help will be appreciated 
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valdez
Active member
try these
try these
Well,
it's kind of sticky there are lots of answers, but no particularly easy ones. Good doc books are hard to find, I've always kept an eye out. Aren't really many good new ones, most new ones are like "how to make instructional type films" or that type of ilk, or "how to make a feature film on $10" mostly for indie film people wanting to make Tarantino type films, with a short chapter on documentary from inexperienced minds. The best book I know that exists on the subject is called "Cross-Cultural Filmmaking" by Ilisa Barbash and Lucien Taylor and it covers about everything you'd ever want to read from shooting, to fundraising to theory and ethical issues. I got an old one at a library that I can't find anymore called "the New Documentary in Action" by Alan Rosenthal (I think) thats mostly interviews with some of the best makers, but very good and informative. For theory and general studies of classics you can look at "Documentary: A History of the Non Fiction Film" by Erik Barnouw (a little dry) or if you can find it "Documenting ourselves: Film Video and Culture" by Sharon R. Sherman which is very good. To really learn the craft though I'd say get some recent, general low budget filmmaking books (there are zillions of them these days), learn your equipment, and shoot some short subject stuff of your own however you can; doesn't matter how bad they are. You'll learn the best lessons from those first couple struggles, then any books like these will go much further and make much more sense. Maybe start with your own family or yourself and something you're going through; make a 10 minute short edited with 2 vcrs or your mac or whatever you have, then you're on your way.
If your still dead set on learning Documentary from books all I can say is frequent your favorite used bookstores and well stocked libraries and look in the film sections for books, you'll eventually find some gems, but I really don't think there are many good ones written recently, everyone is so wrapped up in the Digital Junk these days to talk much about the documentary process itself. Watch the classics and all the great recent doc movies, and don't watch any more TV, that helped me a lot. Anyway, good luck to you, I know there are some others but I can't think of them right now, I'll come back here if I think of anymore.
try these
Well,
it's kind of sticky there are lots of answers, but no particularly easy ones. Good doc books are hard to find, I've always kept an eye out. Aren't really many good new ones, most new ones are like "how to make instructional type films" or that type of ilk, or "how to make a feature film on $10" mostly for indie film people wanting to make Tarantino type films, with a short chapter on documentary from inexperienced minds. The best book I know that exists on the subject is called "Cross-Cultural Filmmaking" by Ilisa Barbash and Lucien Taylor and it covers about everything you'd ever want to read from shooting, to fundraising to theory and ethical issues. I got an old one at a library that I can't find anymore called "the New Documentary in Action" by Alan Rosenthal (I think) thats mostly interviews with some of the best makers, but very good and informative. For theory and general studies of classics you can look at "Documentary: A History of the Non Fiction Film" by Erik Barnouw (a little dry) or if you can find it "Documenting ourselves: Film Video and Culture" by Sharon R. Sherman which is very good. To really learn the craft though I'd say get some recent, general low budget filmmaking books (there are zillions of them these days), learn your equipment, and shoot some short subject stuff of your own however you can; doesn't matter how bad they are. You'll learn the best lessons from those first couple struggles, then any books like these will go much further and make much more sense. Maybe start with your own family or yourself and something you're going through; make a 10 minute short edited with 2 vcrs or your mac or whatever you have, then you're on your way.
If your still dead set on learning Documentary from books all I can say is frequent your favorite used bookstores and well stocked libraries and look in the film sections for books, you'll eventually find some gems, but I really don't think there are many good ones written recently, everyone is so wrapped up in the Digital Junk these days to talk much about the documentary process itself. Watch the classics and all the great recent doc movies, and don't watch any more TV, that helped me a lot. Anyway, good luck to you, I know there are some others but I can't think of them right now, I'll come back here if I think of anymore.
Rextilleon
Active member
Good list Valdez---I always recommend that people see lots of documentaries---not as casual viewers but as students. Years ago, I read the Barnouw book then went on a journey to see most of the films he mentions. As far as technical stuff goes, there are many ways to learn that---From books to online courses to seminars etc.
TeamJoeDawn
Well-known member
Not specifically for documentary only, but my fav so far about the topic in general is "digitial video handbook" by Tom Ang.. great book.
Secondly, "$30 filmschool" isnt' bad.
Secondly, "$30 filmschool" isnt' bad.
cinemakinoeye
Well-known member
fresh said:
My first piece of advice when it comes to learning documentary is you should understand that your access to your subject, your relationship with your subject, the time spent with your subject, and respect for your subject, are the essential ingredients and amount to 70% of what documentary filmmaking is about. The other 30% is craft and technique. Some of the greatest documentary filmmakers never went to film school. This is not to say that the 30% portion that is craft and technique is not very important, but ironically, film schools and books on documentary stress the easy part: the 30% that is craft and technique . The other 70% is really hard to learn in school or in a book, it has to do with being out in the real world. You'll find that many successful documentary filmmakers have degrees in subjects other than film. Don't get me wrong, technical chops are important, you don't want to spend twelve weeks in the Kalahari desert only to find your sound is unusable. Practice the craft, yes.
That said, one of the best Documentary Filmmaking textbooks is Directing the Documentary by Michael Rabiger, the book has gone through several editions and has stood the test of time, I praise the book for comprehensiveness as a practical and solid course in documentary. On the theoretical side, an interesting read is Introduction to Documentary by Bill Nichols, which provides a contemporary introduction to history, criticism, and concepts that characterize documentary film.
And then there are films. Watch lots of documentary films, you can learn a lot from them. I could go on and on, but this is a start.
Bus No. 8
Well-known member
I second cinemakinoeye's suggestion of Directing the Documentary by Michael Rabiger. This was our textbook in the Documentary Production program at the University of Washington. But while there are a number of good books out there on the subject; another is Documentary Filmmakers Speak, edited by [SIZE=-1][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Liz Stubbs, I personally feel that it is a really good idea to invest some money in learning from others, ie., taking some classes.
Look around and see if there is a good documentary production program in your area - could be through a film institute or through a community college. Doesn't mean you have to get a Master's degree in Documentary Filmmaking (where the hell is that going to get you?) But giving yourself a dedicated amount of time to focus all of your creative energies on really learning how to do this thing you think you want to do is a very valuable experience. Taking classes on camera, lighting, editing, audio, etc. are a really, really good idea - you can never know too much. But learning the specific language, style and discipline of documentary filmmaking is something you shouldn't pass over if you have the opportunity.
You can certainly learn from reading books and definitely by just getting out there and doing it, but there is something very valuable in learning from someone who is, for better or worse, a working professional. If nothing else, your own sense of what is good and what isn't could be more sharply defined by an instructor who you find you do not agree with at all. The best case scenario is that you have the opportunity to learn from someone who really knows what they're doing, and will kick your butt when you think you do too. Also, it may be the last time before it's too late for you to be in an environment where people will tell you exactly what you don't want to hear, but need to hear.
Learning to be a documentary filmmaker means learning to truly listen, to allow yourself to adjust your perceptions, and to let your own vision evolve as it meets those of the people around you. A solid class with other people as committed to learning as you are is a great place to get that.
Plus, when you're done with your classes, you'll have a great network of people with common experiences and language to continue working and collaborating with, and that alone might well be worth the cost of tuition.
You can't make film in a vacuum, and finding a place to meet and work with other people who are just as passionately geeky about creating good documentaries as you are is one of the most valuable things you can purchase.
So, yes - read, read, read and - of course - watch a lot of documentaries (just bump them all to the top of your Netflix queue and just let them come), but don't sell yourself short by being determined to do it all and learn it all on your own.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]
Look around and see if there is a good documentary production program in your area - could be through a film institute or through a community college. Doesn't mean you have to get a Master's degree in Documentary Filmmaking (where the hell is that going to get you?) But giving yourself a dedicated amount of time to focus all of your creative energies on really learning how to do this thing you think you want to do is a very valuable experience. Taking classes on camera, lighting, editing, audio, etc. are a really, really good idea - you can never know too much. But learning the specific language, style and discipline of documentary filmmaking is something you shouldn't pass over if you have the opportunity.
You can certainly learn from reading books and definitely by just getting out there and doing it, but there is something very valuable in learning from someone who is, for better or worse, a working professional. If nothing else, your own sense of what is good and what isn't could be more sharply defined by an instructor who you find you do not agree with at all. The best case scenario is that you have the opportunity to learn from someone who really knows what they're doing, and will kick your butt when you think you do too. Also, it may be the last time before it's too late for you to be in an environment where people will tell you exactly what you don't want to hear, but need to hear.
Learning to be a documentary filmmaker means learning to truly listen, to allow yourself to adjust your perceptions, and to let your own vision evolve as it meets those of the people around you. A solid class with other people as committed to learning as you are is a great place to get that.
Plus, when you're done with your classes, you'll have a great network of people with common experiences and language to continue working and collaborating with, and that alone might well be worth the cost of tuition.
You can't make film in a vacuum, and finding a place to meet and work with other people who are just as passionately geeky about creating good documentaries as you are is one of the most valuable things you can purchase.
So, yes - read, read, read and - of course - watch a lot of documentaries (just bump them all to the top of your Netflix queue and just let them come), but don't sell yourself short by being determined to do it all and learn it all on your own.
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cinemakinoeye
Well-known member
Bus No. 8 said:
Bus No. 8 makes some very valuable points here. When I reflect back on my own documentary education, I never tool a college class on the topic, however, I was very lucky to be living in San Francisco at the time, and San Francisco then, and to this day, had several amazing media arts organizations that provide excellent workshops, classes, and events, for example, the Film Arts Foundation and the Bay Area Video Coalition. If you're lucky enough to be living in a town with a thriving documentary community, you'll find that connectng with the community through events, classes, workshops, and volunteering to work on projects will provide much of what Bus No. 8 is talking about. Yes, community is very important, and I should not have left that out of my discussion. You will learn so much through participating in the local community. Most of the documentary filmmakers I've met over the years are very generous in terms of sharing their knowledge, experience, and skills. And if you don't live in a town with a thriving documentary community, you might consider taking a year off and living in one and immersing yourself in whatever events, classes, and workshops are available and volunteering to work on projects, etc. With all of the resources available in both cyberspace and physical space, it's easy to craft your own learning experiences. Not to imply that film school is not a good idea, but it's not right for everyone. Each person's journey is unique...
valdez
Active member
Very good points. And great book suggestions. I agree that a community of other filmmakers in general is very helpful. I also didn't have that luxury at first, but finding one where-ever you can does help. I was a snob about doing things on my own for a long time but eventually caved and went to various Cheap workshops and such that all helped tremendously.
I do think it's worth noting that the 30-70 point is very wise. the technical stuff is important, especially sound issues, but truly secondary to the actual implemention of dealing with a subject, ethical considerations, getting to know your subject, research, etc., etc.
Once I spent 2 years at a program in North Carolina "the Center for Documentary Studies" and it helped me mostly in that it's focus is not filmmaking at all, but general documentary; i.e. Still photography, Oral Histories, Audio Docs, and some video. I think it almost helps to seperate yourself a little from all the tech jargon and focus on dealing with communities different from your own and traversing difficult situations carefully and respectfully, so you don't find yourself abandoning projects out of being shut out or overwhelmed.
Also I think it should be noted (since it's rarely mentioned) that everything you can learn technical and otherwise will be tested when you come up against funding. Anyone who is or wants to be working in Doc filmmaking will learn early on that you don't make documentaries to get rich. What I mean is you will also have to learn to write grant proposals, and it's a pain in the ass. It's got to be done, and it takes forever unless you've got big inheritances.
Even if you think you may have the story of a lifetime, and you just need to get started to see where it goes you'll still have to write silly treatments and budget breakdowns that outline things that you couldn't possibly know until well into the "production phase". Thats just the nature of it, and you will end up pulling stuff out of your ass, and making out cheesy improbable storylines that you couldn't possibly predict, but thats what funders want in spades. I think they also know that, and partly want to see that you're capable of just that, as a sort of test of your adaptabilty. Eventually, if you work at it and send out enough proposals to the right places, tailored to each of their specs something will come through.
Usually it helps if you have someone to "underwrite" you who has non-profit status so you are eligable for more realistic grants and many places will do that and just take 5-10% of any grants you get but its worth it, makes getting grants easier.
I'm still struggling with that and I think it's a huge part of documentary, that is rarely discussed since most of us doc-heads are trying to scrape by and make that one first great doc film on all our last pennies hoping to strike gold with our talent. Talent, sadly, doesn't pay the bills (though sometimes it seems like it does in Canada, it sure doesn't here in the US, Gov hates art here).
my Bottom line advice for newbies: DONT kill yourself trying to make your first doc into a feature film on your own last bucks because it's the greatest idea ever. It probably won't happen unless you're REALLY well connected somewhere. take your time and raise some money for your film and make some shorts first.
Also don't take advice from someone you don't know, like me, to be gospel if you really do have the story of a lifetime; Go ahead, chase after it and don't quit, but expect to be hurting once in a while. Just my thoughts.
I do think it's worth noting that the 30-70 point is very wise. the technical stuff is important, especially sound issues, but truly secondary to the actual implemention of dealing with a subject, ethical considerations, getting to know your subject, research, etc., etc.
Once I spent 2 years at a program in North Carolina "the Center for Documentary Studies" and it helped me mostly in that it's focus is not filmmaking at all, but general documentary; i.e. Still photography, Oral Histories, Audio Docs, and some video. I think it almost helps to seperate yourself a little from all the tech jargon and focus on dealing with communities different from your own and traversing difficult situations carefully and respectfully, so you don't find yourself abandoning projects out of being shut out or overwhelmed.
Also I think it should be noted (since it's rarely mentioned) that everything you can learn technical and otherwise will be tested when you come up against funding. Anyone who is or wants to be working in Doc filmmaking will learn early on that you don't make documentaries to get rich. What I mean is you will also have to learn to write grant proposals, and it's a pain in the ass. It's got to be done, and it takes forever unless you've got big inheritances.
Even if you think you may have the story of a lifetime, and you just need to get started to see where it goes you'll still have to write silly treatments and budget breakdowns that outline things that you couldn't possibly know until well into the "production phase". Thats just the nature of it, and you will end up pulling stuff out of your ass, and making out cheesy improbable storylines that you couldn't possibly predict, but thats what funders want in spades. I think they also know that, and partly want to see that you're capable of just that, as a sort of test of your adaptabilty. Eventually, if you work at it and send out enough proposals to the right places, tailored to each of their specs something will come through.
Usually it helps if you have someone to "underwrite" you who has non-profit status so you are eligable for more realistic grants and many places will do that and just take 5-10% of any grants you get but its worth it, makes getting grants easier.
I'm still struggling with that and I think it's a huge part of documentary, that is rarely discussed since most of us doc-heads are trying to scrape by and make that one first great doc film on all our last pennies hoping to strike gold with our talent. Talent, sadly, doesn't pay the bills (though sometimes it seems like it does in Canada, it sure doesn't here in the US, Gov hates art here).
my Bottom line advice for newbies: DONT kill yourself trying to make your first doc into a feature film on your own last bucks because it's the greatest idea ever. It probably won't happen unless you're REALLY well connected somewhere. take your time and raise some money for your film and make some shorts first.
Also don't take advice from someone you don't know, like me, to be gospel if you really do have the story of a lifetime; Go ahead, chase after it and don't quit, but expect to be hurting once in a while. Just my thoughts.
cinemakinoeye
Well-known member
You can learn a lot making shorts, and they allow for mistakes to be made and learned from. I spent two years running a film program and I saw a pattern: those students who put their best effort and took seriously their many short assignments during the program ended up making better final projects. This, of course, is a generalization, and what is true in general is not necessarily true for any one individual. There are people who have come out of nowhere and made a feature length film as their first film. It can happen, but it's the rare exception. Most of us learn through lots of practice. Like any information and advice from others, you have to eventually make sense of it for yourself and see what works for you on your own terms. Good luck, documentaries are great to make and a wonderful way to help people see something in a new or different way, but it certainly will not make you rich. "Super Size Me" and "Murderball" are the rare exceptions, most documentary films don't make much money, but they are an important and vital aspect of the media landscape. The best reason to make a documentary is because you have to, it's a topic you're obsessed with, because you will need that obsession to drive you through the hard times, especially since there is little or no financial reward at the end of the journey, the drive has to be in the content of the film and your passion to make it.valdez said:
Bus No. 8
Well-known member
All good advice from Cinemakinoeye and Valdez, and I heartily second the advice to make, and learn from making, shorts. 7 minutes may seem like it's not even worth the effort - if you've never made a 7 minute film. But 7 minutes can and will easily consume at least a couple of months of your life and at the end, that 7 minute film will feel like the most monumental achievement - and it will be. Until the next one. And, if you have talent and storytelling abilities, that 7 minutes can inspire yourself and others to invest in more ambitious projects, not to mention inspire an audience.
cinemakinoeye
Well-known member
One more thing about shorts (under 10 minutes) is that many festivals program them, often before a feature, and this can offer good exposure. It's good to go to a festival with a film, and have your next project ready to go, cause everyone will ask, what are you working on now... and then you can say, "I have this feature in preproduction..." I know several people who found producers and key crew members that way. Making short films is one of the best "film schools" around.