Where to go from here--

K

KOHR

Well-known member
Hey everyone, I'm just looking for some advice on what I should do for my next project. I've been making shorts for the past two years ( completing about 5 that actually matter; all between 6-10 minutes) and recently I decided to improve the portion of my film making that I thought really needed work, screenwriting. Well, I bought a library of books on the matter and half made it about halfway through them. I feel like I've learned quite a bit and really want to practice what I've learned; the problem is that the information they present is all about feature scripts. I've been considering making a low-budget (<$10,000) 80-90 minute feature and I think it would be a great experience for both screenwriting and production, but, on the other hand, I think that if I devote the following months to a well budgeted 9-15 minute short, I could probably make something that is far more lean and professional. So my question is, what would be the better learning experience and more beneficial to my directing career; making a feature that will probably wind up being amateur or making a sort of, "thesis" short.

P.S.- I've heard many different ideas about what the best length for a short is (for festival competition)-- many say anything over 10 minutes is not likely, but "I Love Sarah Jane" did quite well and its 15 minutes. Then I also see that a short is defined as anything under <40 minutes... so does anyone know if 40 minute shorts are rare?

Also- I figure I should mention that one of the reasons I'm even considering making a feature is because I saw certain indie features that got some distribution and recognition at major fests that I knew I could do just as well as if I actually were to complete a feature. "Blood Car" was amateur, for example, but got many awards and also can be found in every video rental store in the USA....

I don't have any money for a 35mm transfer, so seeing as how the film will be shot in HD (1080), can I actually expect any possibility of festival distribution at the narrative feature level?


Thanks everyone! :thumbup:
 
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It's rare for a short to make money. Even a less than stellar feature stands a chance of getting distribution. And a feature can be made for $10,000. It's not easy, but it can be done. It helps that you're writing the script yourself -- you can design a script that can be shot on a miniscule budget.

I say dive in and take a stab at a feature. :)
 
I only saw the trailer for Blood Car but it didn't look amateur at all. B-movie-ish maybe. But that seemed deliberate.
 
Justin Kuhn said:
I only saw the trailer for Blood Car but it didn't look amateur at all. B-movie-ish maybe. But that seemed deliberate.
Click to expand...


Definitely go rent the movie and you'll see what I'm talking about. They used the best shots by-far to be used in the trailer. I'm not trying to say that I want to go out and make something long and amateur, I'm just saying that I think I could make something with at least higher production value than that, which I'm sure could get some sort of miniscule distribution.
 
Do you want to make features or do you want to make shorts? If your goal is to make features and possibly make money then get on with it. It's like running to get into shape for a marathon, but then never running the marathon. Do it! Run the marathon then you will have the confidence to continue running them and getting better every time. Even if it sucks you will have done it. My first feature sucked...but I only write features now. I know I can make them. The word short film doesn't enter my thought process anymore. What do you want to do? Don't waste another second thinking about...do it! Besides...a feature is a bunch of shorts...a bunch of sequences...a bunch of scenes...a bunch of shots. That's all it is!
 
Hmm, well as a businessman I would say short films are bad business, but here I am saying that while I'm planning to direct several short ideas I have. The main reason is because I have no narrative reel. I have some solid music videos, I'm good at that, I have corporate work that's very professional, but that stuff is easy to do well if you're a perfectionist, it doesn't take a ton of knowledge, just hard work basically. Narrative filmmaking is what I want to do, and I need to make a few shorts for my own confidence to say, "Hey, yeah, I made these shorts, they turned out great, they went to festivals, they won awards, I know what I'm doing." So I admit they are personal projects and honestly have no ambitions of them "going" anywhere, if they do or if they take me anywhere, it'd just be a bonus. If they turn out like I want them to turn out, THAT'S the goal, and if they're really entertaining and people enjoy them, I'm very happy.

I personally cannot understand the idea of a $10,000 feature. I just can't understand it. I spent $10,000 on my last music video, it was 3 minutes long, looked great, but we still saved about $7,500 that it would have cost additionally if I didn't beg, barter, and steal to get it down that low. I worked obviously for free, and took over wardrobe and props, so there were two departments absent, and had my sister helping with set dressing, DP and UPM took pay cuts way below what they'd usually do, got an amazing discount on equipment (about $4,500 for $1,600, 3 discounts on one order, can't even say where because it was that good of a deal!), and I had a lot of equipment myself (two cameras, monitor, jib, dolly, some lighting, laptop, P2 cards, flags, etc.), still the thing was almost $10,000.

Now I'm shooting a music video for maybe about $3,000 to $3,500 and it's going to look amazing I think because the band has worked for two weeks making wardrobe elements, getting 50 extras for free (their friends), all dressed in similar garb, people are really getting into it, they got the location and paid for that themselves, also hired two makeup artists, also built props that look killer, and have helped so much with the whole process, and still it will cost me $3,000 minimum. That's without having to pay for the crew's food or any of the extras food, because the band is covering that, too. I mean so basically you're looking at a $5,000 video even with a lot of free labor and my equipment all free, since I own so much stuff.

Making a feature for $10,000 that isn't totally crap is basically impossible, unless it's a documentary and you're shooting all of the footage and you can edit it. Then, I believe you can do it. A dramatic feature? Come on, I mean seriously. $10,000 for a 10 day shoot pays $1,000 per day for a location, you can't even get a real location for $1,000 usually, you can get a room somewhere. Then your entire budget is gone, and that's if you can shoot your feature in ten days. To me it's a laughable concept. Then again I can't do work that low budget, I just won't tolerate less than pro level work and that costs money.

Now the one exception everyone would cite is Robert Rodriguez, but come on, there is a guy with immense talent, vision, and passion that honestly no matter how much we all wish or think we have, we don't. There's only a handful of people in the world at that guy's level, he was a once-in-a-lifetime story, it's like citing Blair Witch Project over and over again for proof that a terrible film with bad production values, bad acting, and a lame story can make it big, so somehow your bad film can too. Uhh, there haven't been any other BWPs since, so it's the exception that proves the rule. In general, movies that bad don't make it off someone's parents' basement shelves ;)

So what I'd do if I were you, because I've always liked this idea and may try it myself on one of my projects, is make a short that is either the beginning of a feature, or make it a shorter version of a film you have written an entire screenplay for. Imagine the short is a very condensed version of this great story, this great concept, that you have a finished script ready to go for. Now when people see this short, if it wins awards and does great in festivals, you have somewhere to go, a "What's next?" angle. You can start trying to raise money for the feature based on the success of this brilliant short AND the screenplay you have that proves you not only can do a nice little short, but you have the fully written feature just ready to go. I'm not saying, oh gee, that's a slam dunk, but it's a chance. It's a lot of hoops to jump through, though, and not an easy journey, then again in this industry nothing is.

You need:
1) Great short film.
2) Lots of official selections, and at least a few wins at festivals, hopefully a few mid-level, somewhat meaningful festivals, not like a Cannes or Sundance, of course those would be great but let's be a bit realistic.
3) Finished feature script.
4) Ideas of where to send this "package" you have completed, with your accolades all lined up (steps 1-3), and hope someone bites!
 
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JonathanLB- Wow, thanks for the thorough response! Thats basically the type of response I've been waiting for. The only part I can't really agree with is the part about budgeting, because I've always shot micro-budget, so I wind up sacraficing the ease of an actual budget and wind up taking about 5x as long to make the product, as well as nearly kill myself doing it. Also, I believe that it the story is strong enough, if the script allows (in terms of # of visual effects, specific location and prop requirements), and if you have access to volunteer help and have already stockpiled equipment from previous productions, you could technically shoot a film for $0-- (consider Primer, which, if it were not for the purchase of film stock and processing costs, would have had a production budget of $0, and then went on to win the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance). Now, I know that I'm not quite Rodriguez or even Carruth, but I don't plan on winning Sundance either.

That being said, I agree with you overall-- I think it would be wise to create a somewhat "sellable" short (not to sell the short, but to use when I want to get funding for a feature) before I move onto trying to accomplish such a massive task. Besides, I don't think I've even developed my short-films to their actual potential yet. Thanks!
 
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