Where best to place the camera?

thartley

thartley

Veteran
Hoping I can get some good suggestions here.  I need to shoot a scene in an alleyway, where there is a man at the front end of the alley, facing away from that alley.  The action is going to move to deeper inside the alley, because the man's attention is drawn to something there behind him.  The scene is not being "told by" the man, we are just supposed to be wactching him and what he does.  Do I shoot from outside the front of the alley toward the guy and move into the alley when he does, or do I shoot from inside the alley and let his attention be drawn toward the viewer when he looks back into the alley?  I've thought about it too much now and I cant see it clearly in my mind's eye.  

Thanks...   :-/
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

I think your shot really depends on what the narration is. If it is just a quick cut to this 'flashback' or what not, I think it keeps things more suspenseful when the shot is on the outside of the alley showing your talent looking into the alley. If shot right, your audience will be drawn into what the character is thinking, meaning if he has a mysterious/curious look on his face, more people will want to know what it is he is looking at.

I personally love having actors make me believe they are looking at something interesting, yet the camera doesn't show it. It keeps things more suspenseful and opens up the imagination of the audience. They LOVE when they get to imagine what is there other than what the filmmakers show them.

If the narration talks about the talent going into the alley and seeing whatever, then I would have the shot in the alley looking at him. It's basically the opposite of what I said above.
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Get a dolly!  ;D

A shot that comes to mind is:

As far back in the alley as possible and low to the ground (without actually having the ground in the frame; make sense?).  Expose for the light outside the alley; we see a sillouette of man from far back as he turns into the alley.  Just a man figure black against the perfect exposure of the outside.  
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Thanks for the suggestions. My "dolly" is still in the "I got the parts to put it together" stage.

I will just follow my original plan, then try it from a different angle. I get the whole 'multiple takes' thing now.

:D
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

I agree with John, I see this shot using a lot of negative space.

Oh, yeah, I also agree about the dolly part, been using mine all weekend!!
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

It's like 24p. Once you go DOLLY you never go....

You know what I mean! :D ;D
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Well, I guess it went okay. I have what I shot today just about edited, roughly speaking, except for audio. :( You'll be seeing me in that forum in the next couple days, more than likely. ;)
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

i was thinking the same thing

man at the opening of the alley in silhouette is a classic.

you can of course watch se7en for the famous alley scene.

probably has nothing to do with your shot but any excuse to watch or mention se7en!

i just bought the special edition and its great! extra disc.

matthew
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Get a copy of "film directing: shot by shot". It describes and explains many of the instinctive shots that good cinematographers and camera ops frame up naturally without thinking.

It can be a good mind-screw though, so read it several times if you don't get it at first.
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

shot by shot is a great book! I like the silhouette in the alley idea - hit it with some fog of you can.

I added a great cassavettes quote about placing the camera below...
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

I cannot belive what I did. I've read about it, seen it, had it in my mind to avoid it. And yet, I did it anyway. I totally broke the 180 degree thing. I was sitting here watching the edit, and thinking, "something's not right, something is way off" but I couldnt think what it was. And then it hit me. And I cant BELIEVE it happened. I was so NOT gonna mess up and goof like that, and I did. (rant just about over) And I cant "flip" or invert the shot to make it right. I have to reshoot.

Oh, and for anyone who read the "Why multiple takes" thread... I was cautious and took the advice. I took multiple shots, for safety's sake. And I have the same freakin out of place object in every one of them! haha!!!! (ok, rant over)
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?


i know it was mentioned in another thread but i just got frameforge 3d, its a 3d storyboard program.

it is a little bit tough to learn but its amazing, i'm working on a short and i'm thinking of having 3 people in front of a tall chain link fence and then they cut the padlock and go through the fence.

i was thinking of having a crane up as they walk through the newly opened gate.

with frame forge 3d i was able to actually SEE what it would look lke instead of imagining it!

matthew
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Composing on the computer, storyboarding on the computer....

Am I the only idiot still buying pencils? Call Ticonderoga, I want a deal....
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

thartley,
Quoting a great mentor,"always put the camera where the story is." The answer to, "where the story is," can be answered differently at any given moment. You the director should make that call based on our knowlege and interpretation of the script and the story you're telling. You can even cross the line , (rarely) if it's for the sake of getting the camera where the story is. roger
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Without knowing the story I'll take a dangerous stab at it.

There is a need to establish the guy absorbed with something while an event occurs behind him, this suggests a shot from behind because it includes all the ingrediants, the alley, the event, the guy with his back to the event...the object of his attention need not be disclosed. Your problem is helping the audience see that this guy has his back turned away and that he is critically part of this scene. A prior CU might help establish this relationship.

You alternatively could try a few shots,

1. a medium shot of the alley from where the guy is, he walks into the frame, stops and turns away from the alley starring.

2. cut to a CU head shot of the guy looking just below the camera.

3. another shot POV could be of what he's looking at.

4. cut to a wide shot moving up the alley from far down the alley toward the event with the guy with his back turned in the distant BG (this could include the look previously described).

As you can see there are a million ways to do this. The best approach I've found is to ask really hard questions about the scene & story up front so you design a strategy for presenting a question and answer using your shots that help the audience find the emotion of what you want them to experience....& shoot lots of coverage!
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Just plan it out on paper. Draw up a shot sheet or shot list. For example: Alley Scene:

WS (wide shot) - Guy approaching alley
MCU (medium close up) from inside alley of guys reaction
OVS (over the shoulder) looking into the alley (his perspective)
Stedicam - follow him or run along side him as he runs into the alley.
MS (medium shot) from inside the alley as he approaches the area that caught his attention.


You should do a SHOT SHEET for every scene. Actually you can write or type that info right in the script.

Go to the alley and visualize how you would want to shoot it.

Grab some friends and do some test shoots and place the camera all over the place and see what works best for you and gets the point across.

You could also do a nice rack focus if there is enough depth in your shot. You could do a CU of the action the guy is looking at then do a rack focus to bring the guy way down the alley in view.
 
Re: Where best to place the camera?

Thanks... yeah, I actually did end up writing out the shot list. But I sure could have done with getting more coverage than I did. Live and learn, right? This was my very first ever all my own thought up thing, so its been a HUGE learning process. I can write a narrative from now til the end of time, but when I dissect that narrative in terms of shooting, I feel like I am learning to read and write all over again.

This board is the biggest helping hand a person afflicted with the addiction could ask for! ;D
 
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