When the finished product isn't all you thought?

Elmy

Elmy

Well-known member
I was wondering how you guys/girls react/feel when a finished product has issues and missing things (such as not enough coverage or shots) or even basic things like continuity issues ect. I recently shot a short film on little to no budget, little help, and limited time. Now that its almost done edited we've realized (well we realized at the end of shooting actually) that we didn't have as much coverage as we wished, had small continuity issues, and just other "amateurish" issues. Despite this it turned out quite well imop, but i can't help but feel annoyed that we messed up on certain things I know we shouldn't have...

How do you guys react or feel when this happens? Do you just back the film the best you can? Or do you try to explain the issues?
 
Elmy said:
I was wondering how you guys/girls react/feel when a finished product has issues and missing things (such as not enough coverage or shots) or even basic things like continuity issues ect. I recently shot a short film on little to no budget, little help, and limited time. Now that its almost done edited we've realized (well we realized at the end of shooting actually) that we didn't have as much coverage as we wished, had small continuity issues, and just other "amateurish" issues. Despite this it turned out quite well imop, but i can't help but feel annoyed that we messed up on certain things I know we shouldn't have...

How do you guys react or feel when this happens? Do you just back the film the best you can? Or do you try to explain the issues?
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I'll reply later with an edit maybe, but just FIY this is in the wrong section.
 
Honestly, don't beat yourself into submission. Take it as a lesson, and as Jay-z says "On to the next one"
 
ya sorry, I could have sworn I was in the Cafe Topic Section, could a mod move this maybe? Been editing for a few hours straight and my minds numb sorry...
 
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Found this here so I'll answer this here. Welcome to flimmaking Elmy, the wonderful world of compromise. Really though chances are the film you see in your head will never be the film you see on the screen in the end, and if it is, quit, cause it won't happen again. Even guys like Fincher and Gondry and Scott and Kubrick and any other great filmmaker you can think of will think there film is a POS or at least has many glaring short comings. That's the nature of the game. Wait and see the audience reaction. If generally people are excepting then you know you've done your job, if they have a lot of critiques then you know what to improve next time. Thats the game!
 
I agree with Sean, but have to take it a bit further. Sometimes a project doesn't work out. I've been there, and it sucks, especially when you thought that would be the next rung on the ladder and all that. But you have to move on. Learn from the mistakes, let that project finish out quietly and find something to work on that will be better worth the attention of the audience. I've had some pretty massive failures in the past and am doing my best to work past them, that's all there is to do.

For your last question, I do my best to never make excuses. At least not specifically. I'll tell people that things didn't work out as planned and these situations happen, but if you're making excuses- especially saying things were out of your control- you're being dishonest and relying too heavily on what others think of you from this project. Just show them the good ones, or prove to them you can do great with the next one.
 
Screw up, learn, move on, repeat.

That's how it works. Every project has disappointments, and usually a few serendipitous opportunities as well. It sounds like you had both. This is a process and perfection never comes. Just keep going.
 
Well it all boils down to designing the shot properly, but most of the time in our field things are rushed and changed last minute, so you just have to do your best job. We've all been there, and need to learn this part of the job too (the clean up). You can fix alot of things if you're or have a great editor and can always shoot b roll/pick up shots. I've had problems where I wish I could have gone back into the scene and move this light here just a bit and that light there a little more, etc.. Suck it in like a sponge, take notes, and learn from your mistakes. I sometimes even design my scenes backwards.


Have any footage up to check out ?
 
I'm going to chime in here with a view from the theoretical and artistic sides of filmmaking.

A film is not just a film. As we all know, filmmaking is an experience all together. The experience of writing your story, pre production, shooting, editing, etc. It takes a lot of people to make a film, and as you stated, sometimes you don't always have that help. A film is a culmination of the experiences that happened in the effort to create it. And a film will always take on a life of its own.

Now, the contradiction is that an audience or a viewer has absolutely zero connection to the experience of making it. They see the film as the film, take it for face value, and will draw their own conclusions from it. Nothing, including the filmmaker's views or opinions, have any regard to a finished film. It is a work that speaks for itself. Theoretically, the film is never 'yours' per se, but rather a manifestation that stands alone, and can only be read by others.

So now that I've talked us around in circles, my main point is that as a filmmaker, your job is to guide the project, but it will ALWAYS take on a life of its own. You can recall the experience of making said project when someone asks, but never make excuses for your work. The process is the process.

Take care and good luck!
 
I was able to cut that problem down to 10% since I do 3D preproduction.

Take any 3D program (Blender is free for example) Import some human figures, set up your lights and cameras, mock up some basic geometry (mostly boxes) for walls, tables andwhatnot and do EVERY SINGLE SHOT AND ANGLE in 3D.

Not only is this kind of moving story board a tremendous help on set - it makes sure you don´t forget anything. You are more relaxed and make lesser mistakes.

Frank
 
Thanks for all the input guys :). Despite its pitfalls I'm actually enjoying how the short is turning out.

The back story to this short is that I own a company with two other friends, and we decided we wanted to try something "experimental" I guess. Normally I'm the technical one, the DP, my friend is the director, and my other friend is an amazing editor and key grip (sometimes cinematographer). We decided to do a 30min short and split it in three, each shifting positions. It was a cool idea but a 30min short with a lot of shots in 4 days and very little resources was quite intense. The biggest issue I'm getting now is just little mistakes, mostly continuity issues (blood on shoulder of shirt in one shot, gone the next scene). But overall given the limited budget, limited sound equipment and limited time I think it ended up quite well, not as amazing as I'd but oh well. Wrapping editing I'm now having issues with music however due to our composer dropping out =/.

to twocik I do have some very very rough cuts of one part of the short...however there has been soo much reediting and fine tuning since then I'm not sure if I should post it, let me know...

and to Postmaster. thats actually a cool idea, interestingly though I didn't have much trouble quickly lighting sets. I grew quite confident of my DP skills in that area through this short. I discovered I could quite quickly see the lighting in my head and execute it in a matter of 5-10min of the lights being up and ready. Is there a huge room for improvement? Duh =p
 
Postmaster said:
I was able to cut that problem down to 10% since I do 3D preproduction.

Take any 3D program (Blender is free for example) Import some human figures, set up your lights and cameras, mock up some basic geometry (mostly boxes) for walls, tables andwhatnot and do EVERY SINGLE SHOT AND ANGLE in 3D.

Not only is this kind of moving story board a tremendous help on set - it makes sure you don´t forget anything. You are more relaxed and make lesser mistakes.

Frank
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One of the best advice-posts ever to grace DVXUser.com. For real.
 
Sad Max said:
One of the best advice-posts ever to grace DVXUser.com. For real.
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Awww
icon_redface.gif
 
Postmaster said:
I was able to cut that problem down to 10% since I do 3D preproduction.

Take any 3D program (Blender is free for example) Import some human figures, set up your lights and cameras, mock up some basic geometry (mostly boxes) for walls, tables andwhatnot and do EVERY SINGLE SHOT AND ANGLE in 3D.

Not only is this kind of moving story board a tremendous help on set - it makes sure you don´t forget anything. You are more relaxed and make lesser mistakes.

Frank
Click to expand...

Completely agree. Most of the work should be done before you've even stepped foot on set. I know a Director who uses Lego to work out his shots and blocking, even brings it on set to troubleshoot scenes.
 
Jim Brennan said:
Screw up, learn, move on, repeat.

That's how it works. Every project has disappointments, and usually a few serendipitous opportunities as well. It sounds like you had both. This is a process and perfection never comes. Just keep going.
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:beer:

Storyboarding is a must.
 
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twocik23 said:
Well it all boils down to designing the shot properly, but most of the time in our field things are rushed and changed last minute, so you just have to do your best job. We've all been there, and need to learn this part of the job too (the clean up). You can fix alot of things if you're or have a great editor and can always shoot b roll/pick up shots. I've had problems where I wish I could have gone back into the scene and move this light here just a bit and that light there a little more, etc.. Suck it in like a sponge, take notes, and learn from your mistakes. I sometimes even design my scenes backwards.
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Agreed. Not planning before the shoot is the biggest mistake many make over and over again until they either learn or give up.

All of my best shoots have been ones that had kinks ironed out. Did I get lucky a few times with unplanned shoots? Yes, but it was LUCK (and maybe a bit of experience) and I don't want to rely on that.

Are you a stick figure artist like me but can play video games like The Sims? You'll love this: http://www.frameforge3d.com/ - Spielberg used it on the last Indiana Jones film and man will it save you a lot of time/figuring stuff out.
 
One of the things you have to keep in mind when doing a pre-vis, is that you have to know the locations you have access to. If you are setting up a long shot, and wind up getting a 10x20 room, you will have to adapt.

They are a great tool because you get to see what you are going to get and then you will know in advance if it will work.
 
Ya, we did story boarding before hand which helped, just on set we got so rushed we had to scrap some things, and unfortunately story boarding wasn't going to solve the problem of no script supervisor.....something I won't make a mistake with again.
 
I don't want to sound like a shill for FrameForge because I make no commission/am not affiliated with them but damn I just checked out their new features list for the Pro version.

Automatic Sun Position based on your selection of the geographical location, date & time of your shoot anywhere in the world. It automatically takes into account daylights saving time and also reports the sunrise, sunset and midday for that location on the date of your shoot.

Multiple-source Overlapping Shadows instantly add depth and realism to any image, and they happen real-time as you work.

I think the best part about the program is you can get measurements to the T of where you need to place objects/actors/the camera/the lights. The program is more for someone making a low-budget film (not shoe-string budget) or a filmmaking professional who needs to save time/money. The shots are accurate for an assortment of formats, from 35mm to 1/3" DV. If I had to put it in marketing terms, it's storyboarding on steroids.

As an added bonus, having a tool like this allows you to show a potential client your vision even better. Instead of hand drawings imagine walking into a bid with these 3D animations of your/the client's ideas. Pretty cool, huh?
 
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