What's up with this free hand camera shake/movement on most of TV Shows

Great! So Nolan stole the title of my doku for his new Superman flick.
Maybe I should sue him, let's say 5 millions would do the trick :evil:

Love the "First Blood" reminiscence though.
 
Tolin said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll39CAovGrg
Man of Steel (2013) - Official Teaser Trailer

Idk about you, but this looks hawt to me. Maybe I'm just one of those rare people that don't find a moving camera distracting or nauseating.
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Is the cameraman drunk? I hope these shots have been chosen to create conservation of movement in the trailer and not indicative of the whole film. Serves to highlight the serenity of the smooth aerial shots.
 
i think the dollyish movement in front of the boat looked pretty crappy...

Great! So Nolan stole the title of my doku for his new Superman flick.
Maybe I should sue him, let's say 5 millions would do the trick
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LOL - 5 millions will be fine frank...
 
A good stabalized shot though looks good. I agree that going handheld gets things done a lot quicker, but for some shots, a tripod is needed to achieve certain effect, and I think a lot of us should still use a tripod just for those few shots at least. Otherwise all shots feel too similar in my opinion. A slider or jib for example is still good for a few SPECIAL shots, even just a couple within a tight time frame to get everything done.
 
ironpony said:
I agree that going handheld gets things done a lot quicker
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Can't disagree more. The amount of hours I've spent watching someone try and get a shoulder rig as stable, just because they skipped the tripod to "go quicker"...

Meanwhile, I'm mumbling in the back "Boy, sure would be nice if we had a TRIPOD, doncha think?"
(that's a serenity reference, folks)


Guys, a tripod just doesn't take that long to set up. Keep one around, use it frequently.
btw ironpony, I do get what you're saying, and was just using your statement to make a point
 
I shot this over the weekend for fun..

The concept is that he may be under surveillance so to some extent I am replicating the 'camera work' of a spy (or whatever) with a long lens

The car park sequence is 300 on the shoulder, the pans from feet up etc are entirely intentional

The phone box sequence is far more stable (35-70) but you will see some 'knee slides' small moves of the body l-r, littl pan-ups etc, again intentional

also the edit points are intentional - often I could have chosen smoother moments!

Enjoy (or not!)

S

 
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That was motivated but too much of everything. Almost all the techniques were effective but completely lost their impact through overuse. I didn't see the need for a tripod for pretty much anything in there, but that said some steadier, lingering shots wouldn't have gone astray. And even though it was motivated it was unrelenting, the lurching about and incessant edits. Two minutes was a struggle, let alone a full length piece. I'm not subject to dizziness, seasickness, headaches etc, there was just nothing to latch on to, no chance to catch my breath. Surveillance is characterised by long periods of boredom and calm punctuated by brief moments of action and movement. Had you done the same (the sequence as written had the capacity) it would have been much more effective. The contrast between lingering/steady and jerky, rapid movement/edits would have given greater impact to both.

Even with what you've got you could have used half the edit points, significantly less misframes and mistimed edits, jerky pans etc and still have gotten your point across. It was motivated but you drowned out your point with lack of restraint. At some point you have to level out with this jumpy stuff and give the audience a chance to take something in. I wanted to engage with it but was held at arm's length by the rush of techniques, never given a moment to absorb anything. I still was only recognising the actor by the end due to the fact there was only one. Had there been another short haired male (the entirety of my recollection of him) I would have struggled to tell them apart. It's a pity because the techniques in isolation were well executed and there were several excellent sequences that were drowning in the storm of edits.

Thanks for sharing. I really did like some of what I saw in there, it was just too much.
 
Thank you for taking the time to watch and think about it.

You are not wrong in your critique - mainly it was shot for fun, and learning, trying to uber compress a 'story' with minimal snatches of information

You are very correct that I could add power with pace changes.

I have a very big dolly too and love creeping that about.

I think I am trying to show that this camera work is entirely motivated and intentional, and may be a valuable story tool.. or not

it is different from not bothering with sticks for an interview..

S
 
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Your intent and motivation was clear even without your preamble. I totally got the spy motivation and the rest just from watching it so you're definitely on the right track. It's easy to be monday's expert. :) Even given longer than the weekend I'd probably have made exactly the same lapses in editing and I know my cinematography would have infinitely worse. Everything I've learnt always goes straight out the window as soon as I press record in anger! But that's what makes a weekend project so valuable. You pursued a concept and when you next pull the trick out of your magic bag you'll be able to fine tune it.
 
I share quite the same thoughts with egg. a few tripod or slider shots would have added (add, added, addeded?) a bit of tension in the silent parts of the song though.. On the whole i think this piece was very well made and caught my attention, even if i imagine that all you used was just a camera - btw did you use a shoulder rig?

Could be a part of a feature...
 
I used two rigs, FS100 and Vlock SmallHD - big rig - for the EXT shots, with a nikkor 100-300 5.6 manual zoom and 35-70 manual zoom
On the bridge we were stealing I used my NEX5n - also inside the vehicle with Nikkor 18/4 and 35-70
The nex5n has one rod mini rig - Ill post pics when I find my Iphone lead..

Part of a film? - yep my 'policy' is to try and shoot little sequences rather than ploughing through an indy script in a weekend - generally this serves the director but brings little to the DOP but learning the skill of bodge..
Its not part of a film but I think 'telephone box' and 'mobile man' (a stolen oner) will make my reel..

Incidentally the actor want to do a love scene next and be a posh boy - some class - we will probably go for a totally different look, dolly and lights INT if we can snag a bar for a night


S
 
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Handheld has it's places but I hate it when the camera is deliberately moved to try and create action or a sense of mood as it just distracts from the actors or action.

Also using it to try and create a fake doco style just doesn't work either as most camera people will always strive to try and keep the camera as steady as possible.

There are great ser here called "getting on" and "in the thick of it" but their superb script and acting are de-valued by the constant waving about of the camera and deliberate pull focusing.
 
Deliberate movement done well is enhancing the story.
It should be a motivated glance, and the whip can explain the geometry better than a cut
My bloke I glance at his shoes and move up.
Actually not relevant to my story but in 'Good Cop' his trainers were crucial (bloody footprints)
Thick of It is IMO excellent! The thing is the ENG op (real) will hold steady.. until he notices something better occurring, trainers, gun, pork chop, whatever
Its highly cerebral done right... but that doesnt make it right for everything

S
 
Am I the only one here who actually likes (and uses) the pseudo tripod shaky cam?
Zoom in as much as I can and shoot as I normally would, except i wiggle the tripod pan handle a little and it shows up big when zoomed in to 200-300mm. Looks far nicer than authentic handheld when done correctly in my opinion as it gives the handheld look without the jitter and jello... (So in my case, I'm not doing 'handheld' to save time...I'm still using a tripod to get smoother, jitter free handheld-looking images)
 
I've never had any real issues with handheld footage before. Like all shooting decisions it's a choice, an aesthetic and tonal decision. It really can add a sense of urgency or intimacy to a scene, and the speed it allows you to move at, can make for a nice, fluid production (which can help influence the tone of a film in and of itself).

"Shakey-cam" however, is a different thing entirely. I don't think you can really classify it as 'handheld' really, because it's a different aesthetic altogether (albeit achieved in a similar fashion).

Shakey-cam makes me sick, the last 2 Bourne films quite literally gave me headaches whilst I was watching them in the cinema. Just a horrible experience all round. And when you combine shakey-cam with rapid-fire editing... things just get painful.
 
Grug said:
I've never had any real issues with handheld footage before. Like all shooting decisions it's a choice, an aesthetic and tonal decision. It really can add a sense of urgency or intimacy to a scene, and the speed it allows you to move at, can make for a nice, fluid production (which can help influence the tone of a film in and of itself).

"Shakey-cam" however, is a different thing entirely. I don't think you can really classify it as 'handheld' really, because it's a different aesthetic altogether (albeit achieved in a similar fashion).

Shakey-cam makes me sick, the last 2 Bourne films quite literally gave me headaches whilst I was watching them in the cinema. Just a horrible experience all round. And when you combine shakey-cam with rapid-fire editing... things just get painful.
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I like shaky cam as long as there's a reason for it and is not overused (like in too many films nowadays)
 
I think it mainly depends on the use. I find it particularly effective when the adrenaline levels are high in the scene. I.e Car chases, paranoid character, being chased on foot etc.. I think it is a fine line though and can easily distract from the story.
 
Donald Ong said:
Am I the only one here who actually likes (and uses) the pseudo tripod shaky cam?
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Not if you were reading carefully--see posts 48, 52 and probably others.

Donald Ong said:
Zoom in as much as I can and shoot as I normally would, except i wiggle the tripod pan handle a little and it shows up big when zoomed in to 200-300mm. Looks far nicer than authentic handheld when done correctly in my opinion as it gives the handheld look without the jitter and jello... (So in my case, I'm not doing 'handheld' to save time...I'm still using a tripod to get smoother, jitter free handheld-looking images)
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Yes and as stated, this is a common technique in the industry. The part that I don't like about simulating this look on a head is that the results are apparent only in pan and tilt, omitting roll which is part of the handheld look. This is why the partially deflated ball rigs are a bit superior in this regard.

I had my operators doing the loose-head look on fluid heads with 150mm primes on this recent sketch.
 
Sticks - or dolly

To me the liberation of handheld is minor reframes in height or position - not possible on sticks (sway 6 inches L-R) Id hold horizon best I could at all times..

S
 
CharlesPapert said:
Not if you were reading carefully--see posts 48, 52 and probably others.



Yes and as stated, this is a common technique in the industry. The part that I don't like about simulating this look on a head is that the results are apparent only in pan and tilt, omitting roll which is part of the handheld look. This is why the partially deflated ball rigs are a bit superior in this regard.

I had my operators doing the loose-head look on fluid heads with 150mm primes on this recent sketch.
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Ah ok, must have missed those.
Personally, I'm fine without roll. Never liked roll anyway :) It's one of the reason why I fake handhelds with a tripod.
 
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