What's the brightest light ~$1.5k can get?

S

SDub

Well-known member
Hey guys,

Looking for some very bright lights to bounce off of a white card or shoot through a lot of diffusion with a budget of about 1.5k (I don't mind spending less money as well:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)). About 2 years ago, NFS released an article comparing 28 different LED fixtures: https://nofilmschool.com/2017/04/2017-led-light-shootout

The best cost effective light when comparing price, brightness, and color accuracy was by far the Rayzr 7: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1340402-REG/rayzr_7_123050021231_rayzr_7_300b_bi_color.html

I'm curious if you guys know of anything different that has popped up in the last 2 years.

EDIT: Prefer new products, and also ones that can be safely run in a typical US home.
 
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Well you didn't include any qualifiers in your post, so I'll just reply with what I think is the brightest light you can get on a $1500.00 budget.

A used 6K HMI off eBay.
 
I've got the past version of the Aputure 300d and I'd still go with a HMI for punch. The Aputure is a fine light, but with the power supply and add on for the fresnel and barn doors a second hand HMI is a better buy. I'd look at 1.2k if it is small productions. a 6k is pretty huge.
Something about the HMI light has a lot more "punch" to my eyes than a COB going through diffusion
 
20kW @ 88-95 Amps:

And you thought HMI's get hot lol (they're a lot more efficient than this thing!).

Haven't tried this yet, have been thinking about it for a few years: using a laser projector hooked up to a computer as a light source: https://www.lifewire.com/how-laser-based-video-projectors-work-4132351

They even have pure RGB lasers now (don't need phosphors): http://www.lamptolaser.com/fact9.html

Currently rental only prices at the top level, however something less powerful would still be fun to experiment with. The sky's the limit on lighting every aspect of the scene in any color and brightness (almost per pixel with a 4K projector (depending on distance etc.).
 
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I'd still go 1.2 k HMI. You can plug it into any household plug. The Rayzr at spot at 3m gives you 376 FC and 4047 lux an 1.2k will push out 8000FC and 86,080 lux

Flood at 9m the Rayzr is 123 lux and 11fc while the HMI would be 1495 lux and 139fc.

If you want power, I'd say its the only way to go.

The Rayzr is a bit less powerful than a 575
 
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Curious how many Amps are needed for 1.2kW. Using the 20kW example using 88 Amps and this: https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/watts-to-amps-calculator/ with 20000W, 240v, .94PF = 88 Amps.

Using 1200W, 120v, .94PF we get 10.64 Amps which is fine for home/bus. 15 Amp and above circuits. That will be like running a 1200W hair dryer in power cost and heat output.

Using 6000W, 120v, .94PF we get 53.19 Amps which is not going to work (found a 6kW 120v light on eBay from China (ARRI clone); perhaps needs 2 120v 30 Amp circuits?). Using 240v with 6K we get 26.6 Amps which is borderline on a 30 Amp circuit.

LEDs (and lasers) use vastly less power and also produce much less heat... HMI's likely have better color spectrum (that black body thing). EDIT: Or maybe not! https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/3667-filtering-to-match-tungsten-and-daylight
 
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Since you have updated your post and the 6K is out, I'll have to agree that a used 1.2K HMI is going to be your best option for punch vs price. I know you say you prefer new products, but as someone who has been working in the industry for over 40 years I can't tell you how much money I have saved by purchasing lightly used high end gear vs pouring money into new low and mid range gear. But then again I'm a frugal kind of guy who would rather save his millions for retirement rather than giving them to some company for a sparkling new piece of gear, which becomes a used piece of gear in a year.

Just the ramblings of an old guy!
 
I'm willing to buy used gear, that's how I saved money when I was first starting out! I guess I'll need to educate myself on HMI, I've never researched it at all. Any models to look for on the used market?
 
I'd look for an Arri 1.2k with the 575/1200 ballast. It is pretty bulletproof. I've seen them for $1200 on ebay. You just have to keep watching. New they were around $9k and are build to that level. I've never been on a big shoot that used anything but HMI's for punch.
 
Another vote for a used 1.2k HMI (assuming you can find one that cheap). On a cost-per-lumen basis, you won’t do better.
 
In our little studio a handful of LED lights can heat the place up (SoCal), requiring air conditioning so the talent doesn't sweat/shine. Air conditioning is picked up on the mic (we typically use a decent one, the CMC641, less than a foot above talent). HMI & tungsten aren't really options (e.g. to punch through large diffusion for a large soft light). We use Canon and Sony cameras with good sensitivity sensors where 200-400 ISO at F2.8 or so is plenty. A few (lower cost) LEDs going through diffusion can produce as much or more than a 1.2kW HMI/Tungsten without the heat. LEDs, lasers, and even quantum dots are the future of lighting.

For big outdoor shoots, HMIs on generators make sense, until other more efficient photon sources can scale for a similar price (lasers are already more efficient as noted in the high-end projector market ($100+K e.g.: https://dcprojection.com/dcp-projectors/christie-cp4325/ )).

More expensive LEDs, such as AAdyn Punch greatly exceed HMI 1.2kW without issues of HMI flicker (slomo issue: need newer electronic ballast to avoid), bulb aging, hot start problems, UV concerns, exploding bulbs (rare): https://www.dragonimage.com.au/blog/post/led-vs-hmi/
It's a bit over the suggested budget, however it's a superior ~2.5kW eq. light source vs. HMI (which is why once expensive ARRIs are going for cheap on ebay. A new 1.2kW clone from China is under $900 new).

This is also pretty cool: 285,000 Lumens or 1000 FC at 10': https://www.sturdycorp.com/led-lighting/punch-quad-daylight
punch-quad-daylight.jpg


How many of those suggesting HMIs personally own them and use them, and how do you like using them compared to LEDs (regardless of price)? Meaning, if you could afford the equivalent LED, would you switch?
 
jcs said:
How many of those suggesting HMIs personally own them and use them, and how do you like using them compared to LEDs (regardless of price)? Meaning, if you could afford the equivalent LED, would you switch?
Click to expand...

I haven't chimed in on this thread, yet, but I'll bite. I own HMI's, tungsten and LED's. When I need to shoot outside during the day and I'm dealing with the sun and it's more than just something quick and dirty that needs some "fill", I still use my HMI's. Pound for pound, HMI's still beat most LED's. Most LED's that are advertised as "HMI Replacements/Equivalents" are not(at least the equivalencies they state). If a manufacturer says their LED fixture X is equivalent to Y watt HMI, generally it's closer to the size below that or you need the LED fixture the next size up, so it's going to be a much physically larger and heavier unit. I bought two Nila Boxer's last year on special(literally 2-for-1). They have typically marketed the Boxer's as 800 watt HMI equivalents. They are not. They're also heavier than my 800's. Yes, they use less power, and are one of the few LED's with "built-in" ballasts which helps with convenience, but they don't have the punch and have a slight green push. Bottom line: The LED is going to be much larger and heavier. I haven't priced any big gun LED's in a while, so I don't know where prices are sitting compared to HMI's.
 
I used to own a Joker 1200 watt PAR HMI. Even though it was a PAR, it had a full set of lenses too so it was fresnel-like. Great light, I regret ever selling it. It was competitive and useful in none direct sun or as some fill in sunlight but in my experience, you need at least a 2.5k-4k HMI to actually be of any use in direct sunlight as a fill, 6K or larger to key opposite the sun and of course, all of these are at close distances like 10' or under from globe to subject. Any LED useful in situations where you need serious brightness cost way more than your budget.
 
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Run&Gun said:
I haven't chimed in on this thread, yet, but I'll bite. I own HMI's, tungsten and LED's. When I need to shoot outside during the day and I'm dealing with the sun and it's more than just something quick and dirty that needs some "fill", I still use my HMI's. Pound for pound, HMI's still beat most LED's. Most LED's that are advertised as "HMI Replacements/Equivalents" are not(at least the equivalencies they state). If a manufacturer says their LED fixture X is equivalent to Y watt HMI, generally it's closer to the size below that or you need the LED fixture the next size up, so it's going to be a much physically larger and heavier unit. I bought two Nila Boxer's last year on special(literally 2-for-1). They have typically marketed the Boxer's as 800 watt HMI equivalents. They are not. They're also heavier than my 800's. Yes, they use less power, and are one of the few LED's with "built-in" ballasts which helps with convenience, but they don't have the punch and have a slight green push. Bottom line: The LED is going to be much larger and heavier. I haven't priced any big gun LED's in a while, so I don't know where prices are sitting compared to HMI's.
Click to expand...

Agree LED makers numbers tend to be lower when tested and HMIs make sense outdoors.
 
I assume everyone trying to fight the sun on their set owns $20worth of silver foamcore?

I was on a shoot last week with a proper feature level gaffer.. HMI left in the truck. Silver boards lighting the scene.

==

I own 2 lupo panels and 2 200 lupo frenels.. you can do a lot with that apart from big scenes/locations. On a budget Id certainly be looking at the 300d or two.

Ive rented HMI and they are basically horrible! Buzzzing, heavy ballasts, restrike, bulb life CT shift wth age, slow to get up to brightness. Need for grown up stands. Current draw that pops cuircits and can kill.

I just said they are horrible.. but that doesnt mean Im not a huge fan of thier actual punch.

Rent them from a house that is responsible for thier maintainace with a gaffer that is responsible for moving and wiring them. Charge 125% of what the rental and gaffer cost to your client. No cash outlay. Only profit !

Any used HMIs are on the market for a reason.. the are falling apart after a great life at a rental house. They are falling apart!

Thats my opinion, own LED, rent HMI.

(Unless you are going down the road of becoming a gaffer with truck)
 
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Well, HMI's have been around for decades and are in use in just about every exterior shoot of scope, so they can't be as bad as you say Sam??? Sure, they are power hungry and not small and convenient. We are only now just starting to get alternatives, but only up to a certain point as many have said.

Shiny boards have their place. They need constant tending as the sun moves, they are no help if there are clouds, they are challenging in medium to high winds (almost any wind will be enough to sense movement of their focus on subject), they aren't always usable from all angles due to sun position. I generally prefer large bounces myself for a more natural look, then go to HMI when we can't get the right kick angle onto a bounce.
 
I said HMI are horrible fixtures.. but I love thier output :)

I know Im old and fat but I dont like moving a 2.5k and ballast by myself and IMO one really needs expensive wind up stands to lift them.

Im giving a perspactive to someone who has $1.5k budget for a light.. I guess they are an owner op and minimally crewed... I would not recommend HMI in that situation.. I would suggest a client paying for thier rental where appropriate. I pull in HMI on the occasions where there is a need and a budget.

THe shiny board comment was just a reminder that sometime $20 can do the thing.
 
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Well, it may be little confusing to say a light is horrible for six different reasons but yet overall great, but only if you rent because all used ones are falling apart, yet the output is very good...if I hadn't worked with them myself I wouldn't be quite sure what to think.

By that same token, I think the direct light from a shiny board has a very specific look that I personally might describe as horrible, but more specifically, dated (a hot backlight edge from a shiny board is a look straight out of a 30 yr old B movie). Filling a dense diffusion frame (216, 129, Magic cloth) with a shiny board is still pretty punchy but more natural looking. But if I was going for a heightened or period look, I'd maybe go direct.
 
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