what to look for in used HMI

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nickbeef

Active member
rather then buy the new greatest camera, I want to upgrade my lighting package first, and HMI are the direction that I'm thinking of going - as fake sunlight through a window, a powerful key bounced off some bead board, or as a hard backlight that can be hidden far away.

Obviously, these are all expensive, so used is probably the way for me. Personally I think I Joker 800 would be ideal in terms of size, power, customizability (various lenses), but even used, these are 2x to 3x more expensive then other options. I really would like to spend under $2K.

Does anyone have any good advice/experience on what to look for in used HMI lighting? What to stay away from?

Old LTM 1.2K Cinepar or 575w Silver Bullet's seem to be a good deal, but no longer seem to be manufactured. DeSisti seems to be a good name.

Should I just buy a Chinese knock-off and call it a day?
 
HMIs break a lot - way more often than regular thungsten lights as HMIs simply are way more complex (the igniter, the ballast etc) - so you really want to deal with a brand that is still in business. Yes, there is Richard at Galaxy Repair but when parts are getting rare there is simply no way around that. In a year or two when my LTMs start falling apart i go the Joker route. Basically you have to remember that when you start owning lights you WILL start renting those out from time to time and thus you have to consider what your rental clients want - in 2 words: Jokers and Arris.
 
Stay away from Jokers, especially used. There's a reason they are a lot cheaper than the likes of Arri, Bron Kobold, etc. I've been around them a large part of my career(never owned them- for good reason) and they ALWAYS fall apart.
 
Run&Gun said:
Stay away from Jokers, especially used. There's a reason they are a lot cheaper than the likes of Arri, Bron Kobold, etc. I've been around them a large part of my career(never owned them- for good reason) and they ALWAYS fall apart.
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Jokers and Arri HMIs have absolutely NOTHING in common other than HMI in the name of the bulb. One (Jokers) are made for portability, the other (Arri) for endurance - thus the first one is more fragile while the other is overbuilt and requires extra set of hands. There is really nothing on the market that matches Joker's ratio of portability to component strength. I own LTMs that are also super portable but in some aspects they are under-build - the lips holding the barndoors/lens on 575s weren't really design for rough hands of the grip guys.
 
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Yeah, I was also wondering on how much I should be looking at an ARRI type Fresnel HMI vs the PAR type with lenses. I've seen Jokers stripped down completely and put on the end of a pole in a Broncolor Octobox type umbrella, which was cool - but unlikely that I'll be doing that anytime soon, however put in a Chimera softbox seems much more likely.

Being able to swap out the lenses seems like a plus, but I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is over just flooding or spoting a fresnel.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
You don't become a rental HOUSE but rather rent to trusted individuals who know that if they don't take care of your gear their renting privilege will be gone.
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My mistake was trying to help out these no budget indie features as a favor. Friends of a friend type stuff. After damage to a 1.2K HMI and a Diva 400 I have learned my lesson!
 
Run&Gun said:
Stay away from Jokers, especially used. There's a reason they are a lot cheaper than the likes of Arri, Bron Kobold, etc. I've been around them a large part of my career(never owned them- for good reason) and they ALWAYS fall apart.
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I am surprised to hear this opinion of Jokers. The feature film gaffers I know speak highly of Jokers and Jokers are a staple on every film set. It might be that Jokers are valued for their "bug" feature and not so much their robust build. I often see Jokers used as "Jo-Lekos".

I read many touting the Bron's for their weatherproofing and their ability to operate in the rain.

I found this on another forum:

"I was staff 60 Minutes cameraman then freelanced for 10 years exclusively for the network for all shows. I had opportunity to use and evaluate various products even before they were available for sale on the street. Under all various conditions all lights my HMI lights worked wonderfully with the exception of the first version of the 200-W portable light (forgot the brand name, Strand, maybe?) which eventually became the Bron portable 200 after they acquired the company. Bron fixed a number of issues with the light and with hesitation I purchased one because at the time, no other manufacturer had a comperable, small HMI. I never had any issues with the light except for bulb replacement.

The differences in general was in the way they worked. I found the Brons more flexible because the version of the 400's I purchased were the DWO-400 which is weatherproof and was focusable. You didn't have to drop in filters like the par lights (a pain if you are using a softbox). However, are heavier and prone to front-drop especially with a Chimera S on the front. Simple remedy is to purchase new rubber bushings for the brakes. They no longer manufacture this version, and I dont know why.

I purchased 2 Joker 200's from Gilles when he first started K5600. Sold them after 20-some years a couple of years ago. They still are out in the field being utilized under various conditions with only one servicing- just minor cable repair and spark gap adjustment on one head. They remedied that shortly after introduction with a simple repair- Locktite.

The little 200w Bron became my primary quick-hit HMI for stand-ups and fills for 2-camera interviews. I would use the 200's for backgrounds and the 400's for keys and fills. I will have to say, the Brons were so much more rugged and the adjustability in a hurry between the spot/flood and intensity control on the ballast made them the primary go-to fixtures."



 
For what it's worth, I owned a Joker 1200 watt PAR when they used to make that light, I bought it for a song from my rental house when they got out of the lighting business and just wanted to get rid of it all. I paid $1,200.00 in mint condition and used it for years with no issue, never even replaced the bulb and I used it a lot. I tend to baby my gear though and made sure that my gaffers/grips did as well, but I agree, other brands are built more heavy duty. Sold that light years later for $2,500.00 so that worked out pretty well, doubling my money and using a light for five years for free. I regret selling it now, it would be very useful for my current work but at the time, I was traveling a lot and didn't take such big and powerful stuff on the road.
 
JPNola said:
"I was staff 60 Minutes cameraman then freelanced for 10 years exclusively for the network for all shows."
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This quote alone should suggest the specific point of view he's coming from. As one-man band he cares about the gear very differently than even a small production. Moreover as one-man band he can do custom gear as HE knows how it operates. It's different when you have a crew (even small one) and need something set up in a hurry and you have to race across the set to show the G&E guy how to connect this custom cable... We like to toss big-name companies we do work for to justify our opinion BUT this still should be filtered through the narrow scope of perception working for those big-name company provides.
 
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