What to do with a nightmare "director"... ?

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Earlack

Member
Hi everyone !
(Warning, this will be a long post...)

I'm in a tricky situation and I'm kinda embarassed to have to write it down here but I'm just LOST. I need some advice. So, let me first explain all of this (as quickly as possible...).

I'm mostly a VFX hobbyist, started some years ago and learned a lot, but never really did films or professional work. That wasn't really my objective. I found this activity very fun but, I really only expected it to be nothing more than a hobby. Thing is, none of my friend was really into filming/acting or something else, so I couldn't do much more than quick tests or things like that.

Being alone, of course, I gradually learned more things, mostly on the technical side (which led me to buying my beloved HMC150 :D ), because "if there's nobody to do it, how will I finish this"... you know.

Of course, being young, I thought about trying a good VFX school but, man, that's just waaaaaaay too much expensive.

That's for me. Now, I also have a brother (hope I'm not boring...). Which is why I post this.

He loves cinema. That's his passion, since long ago. Don't even try to talk about it with him or you'll have to listen to him for hours :) he's 26.

He always wanted to be a director. He's pretty good at criticizing other people's work. Like me, he never attempted any special cinema school or something related. But he always said he wanted to become a director.

And, unlike me, he had a few good occasions. Because, he's brilliant in two things : writing and talking. I really think he should try to become writer. Multiple times, he had opportunities of being hired on shorts, or to sell his stories. But he ruined every opportunity (and, they were really GOLDEN opportunities) almost at the last minute or at a crucial moment, mainly because he didn't want to make compromises. Or because others people couldn't see things like him.

That's not bad in itself, but it happened EVERY TIME. And I personnaly think, if you don't want to begin somewhere and if you don't have enough humility to "start low", well that just seems almost suicidal to me.

That's the background. NOW...
We weren't getting along well before. Now, that's better. So we never really combined our passions together.
But now, being confident in my abilities, he wants me to help him. So I did.

First project was a short film. He found a theatre crew that was really motivated to do it. I let him direct the project, after al, it was his.

But, man, I understand why he always failed. Being technically challenged is hard for him, but that's not the problme, I can compensate this. Truth is, he started to write the script 6 months before the shoot. AND, 1 week (yes, week) before the actual shooting, he didn't have any idea WHERE we would shoot it. And everything reltaed to it : how would we feed the actors, how would we just plainly work. Nothing was prepared.
So it was cancelled (on top of that, it was all shooting exterior and weather got horribly cold... and he didn't figure ways to overcome it.).

Of course, that was the end of the world for a few days... :) Then, rather tan reporting the project and prepare it better, as always, he just trashed it.

Now, I have a bad feeling that story is going to continue ; he has another project that is supposed to begin this month, and dhe still don't know exactly the shooting locations. He's got good actors, but... I feel it will end the same way, just ruining everything and his reputation.

Plus, he really want to make VFX really important on those shorts, but I think, even as a VFX guy, that's unnecessary.


Soooo...

My question is : How could I end this spiral ? I already talked to him lot of times, even our family, his wife, etc. but he never fully understands. I'd really like to see his scripts on the screen, but it's impossible if he just does nothing and if it's ME that has to struggle each time to cover his errors.

In fact, most of the work at the end is for me, so I'm wondering... why ? Even as a VFX Guy I did more than him, he never did anything that can look like a somewhat-short feature or something. Even as a hobbyist I ended up doing motion graphics for shorts.

I'm getting confused all over, and I just want to help him, but everytime it's getting harder for me...

And, by the way, am I right to think someone only good at writing and talking to actors (directing, I'm not sure) isn't really fit to be a director, especially on indie stuff ?

Thanks by advance for yout input.
 
1. The declaration - We declare something. (I will make a film about ....)
2. Commitment - When you are totally committed to something, for real, you will be completely unreasonable with yourself and do whatever it takes and is necessary to honour your commitment. First and most importantly to yourself, ("To thine own self be true" - Bill Shakespeare), and then to others. This is the only way to establish any sort of personal integrity

Now the list goes on but in this case it never makes it through the second point. In life, there's what happened, and then there's the interpretation of what happened. That interpretation is the story people tell themselves and others of what happened. The actual reality is only what happened. In this case you have observed no real commitment, only another story.

Either your commited to something or your not. Declaring commitment, plus a bunch of reasons or explanations does not equal commitment. Pre-production is one of the spaces and time where commitment to a film project is carried out.

Your brother's non-action in the space and time required for pre-production demonstrate he has no authentic commitment not only to the project, but to himself.

Not everyone who wants to do something always has what it takes. But then, you're already are aware of this. When it comes to the people in our lives we care about, its a hard reality to deal with. No amount of activity on your part can transform your brother. Only your brother can transform himself.

No amount of talking on his part will have any effect on reality. Stories are circular in nature. Only by taking authentic action will there be a result. Its like losing weight. Knowing is irrelevant. You can know everything required to take weight off, but only taking authentic action will produce the result of weight loss.
 
Earlack said:
he never attempted any special cinema school or something related. But he always said he wanted to become a director.
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Let me change just a couple of words in this sentence, and perhaps it will all become clear:

"He never attempted any guitar lessons or something related. But he always said he wanted to become a rock star."

Watching films, and being dissatisfied with them, does not qualify one to be a director, any more than listening to music and being dissatisfied with it qualifies one to be a musician.

A director is a visionary artist, as much an artist as a brilliant painter or sculptor or musician. That craft needs to be refined, and honed, and learned. Nobody leaps from the womb a fully-formed director.
 
In all fairness it's possible to learn the required skills without formal training, although one still has to have the desire and make the effort to learn, whether it's in school or outside.

It sounds to me as though your brother needs to work with someone who will assume the producer's role - handling matters like budgeting, scheduling, seeing that locations get managed and that actors and crew get fed, basically taking care of the organizational and management tasks that your brother won't assume. How you will find that person is another matter...as is finding that person who will tolerate your brother's attitude, as you describe it.

And, film making is a collaborative activity. Until he accepts that, the only films he is likely to complete will be those in which he plays every position himself.

There is no shortage of people who happen to be genuinely good writers, or skilled at working with actors, or adept with the equipment, or have a great eye for cinematography, who get nowhere because they don't have the essential work habits, organizational skills, discipline or personality to exploit and cultivate their abilities. I know a number of people like that: some are more gifted illustrators, animators and designers than I am - and I mean much more gifted - who are very unlikely to go anywhere professionally because native ability is only a part - in some disciplines, the smaller part - of professional advancement.
 
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Find work as a PA or something and have your brother work on a movie also. This way both of you will get some practical experience in making movies. If film school is too expensive, you need to get the experience on the job. Even a few days or even hours on a set will teach you and your brother how movies are made.

I don't know where you are but if you were near Hollywood, you could find a movie set where you could observe....

But I agree with the comments here. It takes time and effort to learn how to make a movie.

Your nightmare is only a bad dream. You want nightmare? Try investing a million dollars in a movie directed by a madman. LOL

Good luck.
 
Sad Max said:
In all fairness it's possible to learn the required skills without formal training, although one still has to have the desire and make the effort to learn, whether it's in school or outside.
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Of course. But watching movies and complaining about what's not good with them does not constitute a course of study for becoming a director. Years and years of practice, and studying what the great directors have to say about it, and making enough small films that your fingers bleed, whether in a formal school or by yourself, will.
 
Your nightmare is only a bad dream. You want nightmare? Try investing a million dollars in a movie directed by a madman. LOL
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Hey Filmman - does this mean you got your funding? Congratulations !


A tough spot, working with family always produces special challenges. Sounds very much like he needs the exposure of working on and possibly being thrown off of a few productions. Gaining an appreciation for what it takes is something he'll have to discover for himself.

I've also unfortunately discovered there's another whole class of people who feign incompetence in the hope of attracting "enablers" who will do things on their behalf. Can be anything from programming their remote to fixing their car to producing their movie. The good Samaritan sucke.. er enabler then also becomes the DBA - designated blame acceptor - by default.

Hard to be objective when it's family, but . . .
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. That's more or less what I was thinking, but seeing how he could convince actors and others people he was right, I was starting to get confused...

It sounds to me as though your brother needs to work with someone who will assume the producer's role - handling matters like budgeting, scheduling, seeing that locations get managed and that actors and crew get fed, basically taking care of the organizational and management tasks that your brother won't assume. How you will find that person is another matter...as is finding that person who will tolerate your brother's attitude, as you describe it.
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Yeah, and if he was already at a "higher" level, he would not need to care about everything. But, right now, if he can't make everything to make his projects come true, I don't want to be the one wearing all the hats and doing all the work for him. And I think NO ONE want to do that for him, once they understand the situation :shocked:
I mean, myself, as an "amateur", I did some little shorts with friends, and I really worked hard and did everything possible to make it come true. So I know what it's like.

Find work as a PA or something and have your brother work on a movie also.
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If only he agreed, it would be the best experience for him, but I doubt he would work on someone else's project (which is, of course, a BIG PROBLEM ; I don't think you can become a pro in this biz just to do only what you want, like a capricious kid... erm.)

A tough spot, working with family always produces special challenges. Sounds very much like he needs the exposure of working on and possibly being thrown off of a few productions. Gaining an appreciation for what it takes is something he'll have to discover for himself.

I've also unfortunately discovered there's another whole class of people who feign incompetence in the hope of attracting "enablers" who will do things on their behalf. Can be anything from programming their remote to fixing their car to producing their movie. The good Samaritan sucke.. er enabler then also becomes the DBA - designated blame acceptor - by default.
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That sounds like it, yeah. Also, I thought it would be "good" or constructive to let him live his "epic fail" (:)) so his eyes would open and he would understand, but the more he fails, the less I believe in that... I wonder where it will end so he can just understand what's going on. And of course, the good Samaritan is the one that get into troubles... ^^

But watching movies and complaining about what's not good with them does not constitute a course of study for becoming a director. Years and years of practice, and studying what the great directors have to say about it, and making enough small films that your fingers bleed, whether in a formal school or by yourself, will.
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That's why I never understood that, when he had his first job and bought a miniDV Cam, he NEVER used it once (in fact, I was the only one using it). Not all directors will like being camera ops ; but... you know what I mean.

Your nightmare is only a bad dream. You want nightmare? Try investing a million dollars in a movie directed by a madman. LOL
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Nope, thanks, that's already enough for me ^^
The real problem about it is, while he's daydreaming, he's unemployed and doesn't really search a job. His wife is working, so... you know, she disagrees with him on that. Kinda tense situation.

Now that I think about it, here's a pretty fun fact : younger, he really loved watching the TV series Dawson. Guess what ? In fact he's exactly like the main character ; fan of Spielberg, and always dreaming. Ah, there's no coincidence, it seems :D

Anyway, to sum up all of this : I'll talk AGAIN to him, but for the last time. For me he has just a few options :

1/Sticking out his fingers from his *** and start the "hard-working way" ;
2/Sticking out his fingers from his *** and if he doesn't want to change, then find people to do what he obviously can't do ;
3/Reconsider his "talent" and do what he really can do (writing scripts, or something like that... ?) ;
4/Stop daydreaming and get a job (lol).

Thanks everone for your advice.

EDIT : Oh, forgot it, what do you think about his "concept" ; making VFX reaaaaaally important in a short ?
 
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If VFX shots are vital in telling the story, then the effects belong there.

If your short is intended to showcase your VFX work for a particular purpose, then the effects belong there.

If you think that VFX shots are just the coolest and you figure hey let's include some VFX shots because they're so cool, then the shots probably represent resources best applied elsewhere.
 
He reminds me of some artistic types I knew when I was younger (mainly musicians, since music was, and still largely is, my primary field). They had what I used to call a case of "The World Owes Me A Living Syndrome". They regarded themselves, unquestioningly, as unusually talented (which they always were, by the way), and capable (which they were...sometimes) and absolutely deserving of great success, just like [insert name of famous artist here].

What they never seemed to spend any time considering was what [famous artist] might have done to *get him or herself* there. Like learn to work well with other people, first and foremost, which is probably the single biggest failing of the "WOMALS" types. In their minds it seems the logic goes seomthing like: "hey...I'm spectacularly talented, which should be obvious to everyone, therefore they should all want to work with/support/listen to/obey/give money to/show unlimited respect for/me. If they don't do those things, then they're obviously idiots, so who need's 'em, right?"

I can tell you this now from my perspective many, many years later: not one of those people I describe had *any* success in their field. Not. One.
 
vic777 said:
Barry ... U the Man, but is this really a good example?
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Dude it's a f-ing GREAT example!!!
I'm a self taught guitarist and music producer/song writer/engineer; I did it professionally for over a decade AFTER I dropped out of Medicine (Resp. Therapist while going to school to eventually be a trauma surgeon)
Med-school = easy compared to the hours and hours of work I put into being the best freaking musician I could possibly be. Now I've switched over to filmmaking because after a decade I need more of a technical and creative challenge and filmmaking is AMAZING because there is soooo much to learn. I feel good about my skills as a filmmaker but know I have a long, long and very happy journey ahead and I FULLY EXPECT TO LEARN NEW THINGS EVERY STEP OF THE WAY! Anything less and I don't think you can call yourself an artist :(

EDIT: To be honest if I had to choose between getting paid or learning something new and getting better, I'd happily be broke. I took a big financial risk to switch over to filmmaking, but I needed the creative and technical mental stimulation that only comes from learning and making something new.
 
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Like I always say, even Bill & Ted learned that they had to take guitar lessons if they were ever truly to become Wyld Stallyns. of course, it wasn't until the very end of the second movie that they figured this out, but still they did it...
 
I am by far no expert here but two things ring true with me. One, a man has to know his limitations. (A good quote from Eastwood) When you know you aren't to par at doing something required on a project, find someone who is and do whatever you can to bring them on board.

Second, the role of director is that of a friend/dad/boss all at the same time for the entire crew. You need to know and be passionate about the story ... even if you didn't write it you need to embrace it. As a Director, you need to guide the entire project from concept to location and food if it's a smaller shoot. You are relying on these people to produce the vision you have in your head ... in turn you need to take care of them. Food and encouragement being critical.

These are not things I have learned in film school (never went) these are common sense ideas that should be obvious to a leader. That is what the Director is and what their crew will expect from them.

Personally, I am leading my crew into "battle" I make sure I take care of their basic needs and comfort ... this has proven to work in my case.

Like I said, I am but a mere rookie in this biz ... but a lot of common sense and personal caring has earned me friends and co-workers to expand my projects much larger than I initially expected.

Use your head ... just remember, it isn't Showfriends .... you know the rest. Sorry it's kin but this eventually comes down to biz, unless you plan on making home movies the rest of your life.
 
I think some people think they can end-run around producing their own work when they start out. Not only is it lazy, but if it works you never learn how to create a project from the ground up. I hate producing, but I'm not working with big enough budgets to step away from the logistics. If you believe in yourself, your stories and your abilities, you'll put up with it to get your shoot done.

Your brother isn't a filmmaker. There are three things you need to do to be a filmmaker: shoot, cut, show. That's it. Filmmakers do whatever they have to do to get those three things done.
 
I agree with Barry on this. You need to learn how to be a director. Watching films and breaking them down is definitely a part of the education, but it is only a part. My experience started with making little shorts when I first got my hands on a camcorder, then going to college and taking both broadcasting and theatre classes (the only "film" program was in criticism through the English department). Through broadcasting I received a solid background in the technical side of things and on the theatre side I took directing classes and acted in plays simply so I could be directed. And thankfully, I was directed by some very talented directors.

But the process doesn't stop. I still look out for books that I think will be beneficial to my continued learning, and I've taken extra roles on films just to be able to watch a director at work from afar and see if there are any tips I can pick up from the experience on running a set.

And then the most important thing is to realize that there's always room to improve yourself. And this goes for any skill.
 
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