What to do when a client doesn't pay ??

J

Jason Wilson

Active member
With this particular client I had always had a good working relationship... all our stuff was verbal nothing written down and signed which is the way most of my freelance stuff is ...

in this case it involved shooting multi-camera at a music festival.... which is now bankrupt not a chance to ever get paid a dime...

so being that I am sure lots of people have at a similar accurance... do I have any other avenue to be paid.... could I get the fesitval (my employer) to sign over all rights to the footage so that I could atleast look at my own forms of distribution?
 
If the company is bankrupt, then I think the rights to the footage is no longer his to give back as that was a company asset. If the company is still in the process (Takes a long time to actually go bankrupt) and you can prove you didn't get paid for the work, you can try to get money, or rights (Rights probably easier to get, as I'm sure the company has a long list of creditors who want to suck up any funds)
 
...but if you were not paid, then the company doesn't own the rights, which means that the material is not their property, which means that it's not a company asset that their creditors own, either.

Seems like.

Depending upon your deal.

This is why verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on...
 
who has physical possession of the media (tapes cards)? even if you have no written agreement, you could file as a creditor to get your property back, if they are in receivership. Still, copyright issues to deal with regardless of that tho.

Another good example of always getting the gig in writing, regardless of how good the working relationship. A good business person will always appreciate doing things by the book. Someone who refuses to sign a contract cannot be trusted.
 
Dick Campbell said:
who has physical possession of the media (tapes cards)? even if you have no written agreement, you could file as a creditor to get your property back, if they are in receivership. Still, copyright issues to deal with regardless of that tho.

Another good example of always getting the gig in writing, regardless of how good the working relationship. A good business person will always appreciate doing things by the book. Someone who refuses to sign a contract cannot be trusted.
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I have all raw files and have already edited everything down since I like the music....

so do I own everything???... or does he since it was a verbal contract....

as far the bands go we shot until someone said to stop and no one ever said to stop
 
Jason Wilson said:
I have all raw files and have already edited everything down since I like the music....

so do I own everything???... or does he since it was a verbal contract....

as far the bands go we shot until someone said to stop and no one ever said to stop
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I have no idea about who owns the footage and rights and laws and all that so I won't even try to help on that front.
What I am curious about is what does he say to you when you talk to him about it?
Does he say that he owns the rights, that you can't do anything with the footage and good luck getting any money?
Have you even talked to him about it yet?

If you had a verbal agreement previously, talking to him might be where I'd start. (maybe you have and I missed it?)

Lee
 
Jason Wilson said:
so do I own everything???... or does he since it was a verbal contract....
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How precisely would he demonstrate that there was a verbal contract?

Seriously, whatever agreement existed is unenforceable. Let's imagine that he - or his creditors - were to actually take you to court (vanishingly unlikely, by the sound of it) to demand the materials.

Them: You entered into a verbal agreement assigning us the rights to this material!

You: Prove it.

Them: Uh...

Judge: Get the &^@*#! out of my courtroom, the lot of you!

If the verbal agreement was informally witnessed, and the witnesses will testify to its conditions, that might be a bit different. But even then you can question the accuracy of their description of the agreement, since (I believe) their testimony would constitute hearsay, anyway.
 
Jason Wilson said:
I have all raw files and have already edited everything down since I like the music....

so do I own everything???... or does he since it was a verbal contract....

as far the bands go we shot until someone said to stop and no one ever said to stop
Click to expand...


I think the larger issue is - had the bands signed any form of release that would even allow for commercial exploitation of the performances in the first place.

.
 
Jason Wilson said:
With this particular client I had always had a good working relationship... all our stuff was verbal nothing written down and signed which is the way most of my freelance stuff is ...

in this case it involved shooting multi-camera at a music festival.... which is now bankrupt not a chance to ever get paid a dime...

so being that I am sure lots of people have at a similar accurance... do I have any other avenue to be paid.... could I get the fesitval (my employer) to sign over all rights to the footage so that I could atleast look at my own forms of distribution?
Click to expand...

If you're a freelancer the festival is a client, not an employer, and you're not an employee. Unless it is in writing that the footage was made for them as a work-for-hire, you own the copyright to the video itself - they don't have to transfer the rights to you since they don't own them in the first place, you do. (But if you were hired-on as one of the multi-camera operators by a production company hired to make the video that would be another matter.) Whether you can do anything with it is another story since you still would need written releases from everyone who appears on camera plus licenses from the copyright owners (ie, composers, lyricists, and publishers) of all the music that is being performed. The original festival venue could not legally transfer those rights to you even if they were willing to do so - you have to go back to the original rights owners to secure the music rights for yourself plus the performers for their release to use their likenesses.
 
Jason Wilson said:
I have all raw files and have already edited everything down since I like the music....

so do I own everything???... or does he since it was a verbal contract....

as far the bands go we shot until someone said to stop and no one ever said to stop
Click to expand...

See my other post - you probably already own the rights to the video you shot but you need much more than that to be able to actually do anything with it.

Even had they paid you, you still would actually own the copyright unless you transferred it to them in writing.
 
Sad Max said:
How precisely would he demonstrate that there was a verbal contract?

...
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Just FYI, while what you say is true of contracts in general, in this case it's irrelevant if there is a verbal agreement or not. Copyright law is an exception in that the law explicitly states that work-for-hire contracts and transfers of copyright MUST be in writing to be binding, without exception.
 
Jason Wilson said:
With this particular client I had always had a good working relationship... all our stuff was verbal nothing written down and signed which is the way most of my freelance stuff is ...

in this case it involved shooting multi-camera at a music festival.... which is now bankrupt not a chance to ever get paid a dime...

so being that I am sure lots of people have at a similar accurance... do I have any other avenue to be paid.... could I get the fesitval (my employer) to sign over all rights to the footage so that I could atleast look at my own forms of distribution?
Click to expand...

If you can prove that you shot the footage then you own it. You weren't paid and you can say what ever you want in the matter. I would consider it a 50/50 deal. They do what they want with it and you can do what you want. If you down loaded it to your hard drive then you will have a dated record of the footage which they do not have.
 
Chris Santucci said:
I think the larger issue is - had the bands signed any form of release that would even allow for commercial exploitation of the performances in the first place.

.
Click to expand...

the most important response to this thread! If you dont have the releases from the performers, your footage is worth nothing!
Since you hold the files and have not been paid and there is no contract, that side of the property is most probably yours, but you can´t do anything with it unless you get those relases signed!

Check with the producer if he has signed releases and if he does, maybe you can make a deal with him. otherwise try to get the releases yourself.
 
timbook2 said:
the most important response to this thread! If you dont have the releases from the performers, your footage is worth nothing!
Since you hold the files and have not been paid and there is no contract, that side of the property is most probably yours, but you can´t do anything with it unless you get those relases signed!

Check with the producer if he has signed releases and if he does, maybe you can make a deal with him. otherwise try to get the releases yourself.
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AND a valid sync license from the copyright owner of the music granting permission to use it. Releases from the band do not carry with it permission to distribute your recording of the music they were playing, only the music's copyright owner can do that. The only time the band can convey that permission is if they actually wrote the music AND self-published it. Otherwise any performance rights they may have obtained are not transfer nor would they include the right to use the music in a video of the performance.
 
threaten to sue, and if they don't pay then take it to the courts. i've dropped that bomb twice this year and received payment immediately. You can't let deadbeat clients string you along like this, get rid of the dead weight and find clients who can do business like professionals.
 
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