What to charge for Editing?

lambert said:
The terms bottom feeder, dime a dozen are all pretty unkind phrases and not helpful in a respectful debate.
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I disagree.

If you are just a student film maker, living in your mom's basement, and feel that working for **** wages is fine, then fine.

But for the rest of us who actually do this for a living, pay mortgages, carry insurance, etc., producers like that are the dregs of the earth.

You get what you pay for.
 
Working backwards from the $100,000 after tax many editors I know make (nobody said it was glamorous!), that is $150,000 before tax, $600 a day, $75 an hour if they are totally busy at all times. And that's with zero expenses in equipment, software, rent, office expenses, etc.

So, $75 must be a bare minimum in this business on long term projects that keep you 100% busy + expenses. The going rate must be $150 for a professional who survives, and that's for limited expenses and if he/she is busy 75% of the time. I have no real info on this, just guessing.
 
let's keep this discussion respectful. name-calling is about the furthest thing from "professional" I can think of.
 
When I was a college lecturer, people frequently asked me if we had a student or two who would like to get some experience, usually camera and editing. What they really meant was a days work for beer money, yet they expected quality work. When we started to have a rate card some were horrified. Basically, as a college, we decided that if they were working professionally, then they should be paid - properly!

If people have a day job, I understand that they may well be quite happy to work at the kind of rates just above what people who are unskilled - but what I cannot understand is why you don't up it. I suppose that if the clients who benefit from the cheap rate, aren't willing to pay what its real 'value' is then they're just cheapskates. Today I worked a job with another person. We both did different jobs - he was lighting and I was all things production. We both worked hard, but the client paid willingly four times as much for me. NOT because I'm better, but because I'm responsible, sensible and known for getting the job done and taking responsibility for it. The Lighting guy constantly watched the clock, and during the de-rig sat about doing nothing because it had gone over his agreed end time by ten minutes.

Did I actually do more 'work' than him? Probably not, but that isn't the point.

What we're really talking about is the fact that amateur and professional status is differently paid.
 
Otis Grapsas said:
Working backwards from the $100,000 after tax many editors I know make (nobody said it was glamorous!), that is $150,000 before tax, $600 a day, $75 an hour if they are totally busy at all times. And that's with zero expenses in equipment, software, rent, office expenses, etc.

So, $75 must be a bare minimum in this business on long term projects that keep you 100% busy + expenses. The going rate must be $150 for a professional who survives, and that's for limited expenses and if he/she is busy 75% of the time. I have no real info on this, just guessing.
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That's a spot-on breakdown Otis.

When I started editing over 10 years ago I charged $25 per hour. But what I
didn't factor in my overhead. Now many may ask "What overhead?". Well, that
was my mistake as well. At year's end, when I included equipment upgrades,
software purchases, internet, printer toner, blank DVDs - even parking when
meeting with clients, $25 per hour after tax was more like $10 - $15. Luckily
I was in my 20s and had little to worry about save rent and beer money.

Now that I have a family, a car, a mortgage, etc, $25-$50 per hour won't cut
it. I now understand why a production house charge $250 - $400 per hour
for editing. One word. Overhead.

Now, I don't want to come across as saying if you're right out of college you
should be demanding $100 - $150 per hour. That's unrealistic. You still need
to charge what the market will bare based on your experience. In some cases
that might be $25 per hour, in some cases more. But, as you gain experience
and build a reputation, your value will increase, as so will your pay cheque.

P.
 
The fact that ANYBODY with little or no experience can do our job is one of the mitigating factors that determine the cost/rate of our profession. We don't require any kind of certification, degree or oversight in order to practice our craft.

Case in point:
My wife decided she wanted to learn to shoot/edit. So I picked up this book and said read it:
http://www.amazon.com/Filmmakers-Ha...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275831901&sr=8-1

She read that in 4 weeks and did AVID tutorials on lynda.com for a few days. I gave her raw footage (4 hours) and with no supervision from me she came up with this:

http://vimeo.com/5653586

You can judge if her work is good/bad/unacceptable but she is not really an "editor". She is a dentist. (she edits for fun).

Her career is mandated by a medical degree+certification+annual CE credits+ethics board...etc so I cant simply decide to pick up "gray's anatomy" and start practicing medicine. Those factors determine her rates.

So what do we bill for our services, talent, experience and equipment? I think the there is one answer that will be true for everybody in this thread:

-As much as we can!!!
 
JonathanLB said:
I say hey ok I need you to get me this project by next Thursday, and you say ok this is 6 hours of work that has to be done in 6 days, then I have another 2 hours of work re-editing the video after the client gives feedback, then I'm done.
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Do you ask the editors you hire for the project files and use that to do your re-edits? Or do you just edit the finished video your editor provided? if so what if there is something you need the project files to edit?

Is it a no-no to ask for the project files so that you can make tweaks to the video?
 
I don't give up the project files unless it's agreed to in advance and includes a huge sum of money.

They get the final product, but not the recipe to make it. If they want to make changes they can come back to me for the re-edit, or they can take their source materials elsewhere and start from scratch.
 
agree with Butcher.

no way i'd be giving up source files unless they are paying for it. i've had to work with various ad agencies that did all the the online advertising for several movies and studios and the only way i was getting source files to their work was because i was working with them as a 3rd party. the client (studio) got the finished product. if they wanted changes, they paid us extra. if they wanted the source files, which they never did because of convenience, then it probably woulda been a lot of money involved because it was never in the initial contracts.

charge what you're work, skills and talent is worth. dont overcharge somebody for something a college kid can do in imovie and dont under charge because some guy is telling you that some low ball price is industry standard. there's no better feeling than putting out some great work you're proud of and actually getting what you felt was a good price for it. the money is the motivation to make you go over and beyond.
 
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JChan,
We charge by the day. We will also charge by the project, if we know the ballpark of the budget, and scale the project accordingly. I can sympathize with JonathanLB wanting to get the most bang for his buck, but have to respectfully disagree with the rates he offers his workers. The only unknown upside is that Jonathan may provide his employees with great health insurance, 401k matching, and 4-6 weeks paid vacation. These are things that a freelancer cannot normally benefit from.

If I needed some basic footage slapped together and exported onto a DVD, I MIGHT feel comfortable paying $35/hr to a college student (but to date, have never paid a rate that low). However, 99.9% of what we do is creative and requires a fine balance of technical knowledge, creative spark, experience and intuition. My clients almost never question the cost of doing business with us. It seems to them, $$$$ is less important than quality and creativity.

JChan: The bottom line is, what can the market bear for your services? Unless you are editing for for a 'high-volume, low-compensation driven company' like TurnHere, or have absolutely no aptitude for video production, you can easily command $500-$1500 per day as a freelancer in NYC (including equipment). If you are hired for a long term assignment, the rate may drop to $2k-4k per week. You may also find that working for some individuals is more stressful than others and you can simply compensate for the added stress by adding more $ to your quote.

As for pricing right and closing deals, you will need to understand what your personal turnaround time is for certain types of projects. It is probably a good idea to keep track of you hours even if you already agreed on a project rate. Doing so will help you get a better idea of how much time it really takes you to edit and you can price accordingly next time.

No matter what you charge, do not let it get personal in a way that clouds your judgement or causes your blood to boil. Life is about learning. If the lesson happens to be 'that producer just got the deal of the century', than so be it. Next time, you will have more knowledge on how to handle the situation. I have sought work as a freelancer on lower paying gigs simply for the value of networking. You never know, the person you interact with on that small thing could return in the future with much bigger things.


Jason
 
Rates require a holistic approach

Rates require a holistic approach

I charge $35/hr for editing despite the fact that I come with my own full suite and storage solutions. I'm also Apple certified (not a big deal in the real world) but according to many I should charge more...until they realize I'm located in Eastern Montana and operate from my home office where I also administrate a local construction company.

Suddenly my rate starts to make a bit more sense. I charge what I can in this market because if I charged more I'd be building more concrete slabs and foundations than project files. I'd rather sit at home with my son playing at my feet and edit video for a similar hourly wage. It's all relative to your situation and what you prefer to do with your time for a given hourly rate. It also comes down to where you want to spend your time as much as what you're doing.

Take a holistic approach, determine your market and your competition as well as your actual skill level. Then remember to compensate yourself for your gear as well. Take all the opinions in this thread into consideration, not just one or two person's opinions (that goes for myself as well). None of us are 100% right or wrong, some are just more one way than the other. Be one of the few who uses groupthink to their advantage.
 
Great point, atomicg. BTW - I mean no disrespect about the $35/hr wage, just that the NYC market can bear quite a bit more if one has skill and connections.


Jason
 
We're actually making the same point Awakened. I would never charge my rate here in Miles City, MT in an urban area with real demand. I do it here to survive and because there really isn't a market at all unless I travel hundreds of miles at a time to the more urban areas. But I'd still rather make "college kid" wages of 35/hr doing video rather than concrete.

It's all relative to context. In NYC, with some connections and a foot in the door I'd charge quite a bit more, at least double what I do in my home town of less than 10,000 people in the middle of nowhere. Anyone charging what I do in NYC is either underconfident or incompetent.

BTW-cost of living where you're at is a huge consideration when determining rate/wage/salary.
 
For an amateur hobbyest or suicidal business, $35/hr might make sense. Rate = Ability + Experience + Competition + Expenses. I have a home based business by choice but have spent over $120,000 on pro equipment over the past 16 years and am about to spend $12,000 or more for a new edit system to make CS5 fly. I've also spent 32 years building a reputation with producing, directing, shooting & editing experience, primarily on corporate projects. My base edit rate is $120/hr. which I figure at about half for facility and half for my time. I discount for long term projects.
 
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Makes sense BVX, you sound like you're worth what you charge given experience and gear. I haven't spend near that much and am a 1 man show in a podunk town. The wife has a fantastic job here and I own property here as well so I charge the most I can to keep a local market that otherwise wouldn't exist. I would simply be replaced by an amateur or college kid who would present a less quality service at a more affordable price, and most folks here would be fine with that. It's a reality of my location. It sucks but I'm just taking what work I must to pay for the gear (if a hobbyist takes some local work his hobby is tax deductible).

I plan to make the move to some better gear in about a year or two and at that point will most likely double my rate and in turn, eliminate my local market here. But that's my problem for choosing to live where I can't work with the exception of UPS overnight type projects.

The point in all of this remains the same: charge as much as you can for where you're at (in terms of ability, gear, and market) or prepare to move or get another career. Also, the work I do for 35/hr is easy and low stress, although it doesn't really expand my horizons or create connections to the feature or documentary film world. :( Haha, poooor me. To be honest I can't complain. But if someone offered me a challenge for more money and the chance to do it from here I'd take it in a heartbeat.
 
JonathanLB said:
If they are good enough to quit their day jobs and work in the industry, they either get a salaried position like you describe, or they have enough employers just like me to cover plenty of hours. $25/hr is still $200/day and that's $1,000/week, more than most people make.
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I made that 4-5yrs ago as a rookie AE on the first season of a low-budget Reality TV show on a cable channel that most people probably don't know exists.

Just sayin'.


-Andrew
 
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